Posted by: @batpred

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2. Fogstar SEPLOS is the one where the old 1.3 firmware cannot be updated after over a week of calls. 

It should be said that I used plenty of products costing a tiny fraction of what these batteries did over the last few decades. Those firmware updates usually work first time, with robust processes around it, etc. 

For the common benefit, a quick update on this. 

Fogstar initially said they would support the Ginlong/Solis protocol on the Seplos BMS that they sell. 

We were going to try top have Seplos try to actually do the upgrade by remotely accessing a client laptop. In the end, the firmware upgrade worked with a new version of the upload software on a fresh install of windows 11. I have not seen anything letting me know this is being factored in instructions that would save future customers these tricky issues. 

I would absolutely not recommend taking the DIY approach with these lithium based batteries. Even an experienced installer will find it unnecessarily complicated, unless they are just building a second battery. 

Also, I still do not have the cells "balanced", they do not seem to charge to 100%. 

Posted by: @batpred

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Posted by: @batpred

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2. Fogstar SEPLOS is the one where the old 1.3 firmware cannot be updated after over a week of calls. 

It should be said that I used plenty of products costing a tiny fraction of what these batteries did over the last few decades. Those firmware updates usually work first time, with robust processes around it, etc. 

For the common benefit, a quick update on this. 

Fogstar initially said they would support the Ginlong/Solis protocol on the Seplos BMS that they sell. 

We were going to try top have Seplos try to actually do the upgrade by remotely accessing a client laptop. In the end, the firmware upgrade worked with a new version of the upload software on a fresh install of windows 11. I have not seen anything letting me know this is being factored in instructions that would save future customers these tricky issues. 

I would absolutely not recommend taking the DIY approach with these lithium based batteries. Even an experienced installer will find it unnecessarily complicated, unless they are just building a second battery. 

Also, I still do not have the cells "balanced", they do not seem to charge to 100%. 

 

Having built and installed 3 of the Seplos upright V4 kits I'd have to politely disagree.

They were pretty simple to build as a reasonable skilled DIYer.

They also worked out of the box with my Solis inverter.

The early versions of the V4 kits did have trouble fully balancing the cells with the Seplos active balancer, but that has been addressed with the 2a JK active balancer now supplied (and tested myself).

My first 2 kits came with the Seplos active balancer. 

Fogstar are aware of this and I simply asked them to send me out JK 2a active balancers and a cable harness, which the gladly did for £25.

It was a 20 minute job to remove the Seplos active balancer and replace with the JK balancer 

All 3 of my v4 kits are fully top balanced (with the JK active balancer) at 3.625v with a deviation of less the 5mv.

I'd thoroughly recommend the V4 DIY kits for the money they cost.

Posted by: @bash

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The early versions of the V4 kits did have trouble fully balancing the cells

Please clarify @bash

Did you top-balance the cells before installing them in the Seplos enclosure,
or were you relying on the inbuilt BMS to handle that over time?

@transparent 

I have 3 packs.

1st pack I top balanced on install.

2nd pack I let the Seplos active balancer try to top balance (which didn't work well enough).

3rd pack I let the new JK 2a active balancer which came installed top balance, which worked perfectly.

After 6 months the 1st pack became a bit unbalanced, not dramatically, but noticeable. This was most likely caused by the Seplos Active balancer which has been noted to actually unbalance packs, which is why Fogstar switched out to the JK active balancer.

From my own experience it made sense to retro fit the JK balancer to my first 2 units, which has resolved the balancing issues. It is also from my experience perfectly able to top balancing the cells, saving that time consuming part of the install.

Your observations about top-balancing match my own experience.

There's also an interesting YT video by Will Prowse, commenting on another YouTuber who didn't top-balance...
... and makes a load of other mistakes,
which would be hilarious if they weren't safety-related!

Like you, I have favourable views of the Active Balancer units from JiKong (JK).

The lower box (green arrow) is a 200A JK BMS, and the upper battery has just an Active Balancer (blue arrow).

Posted by: @bash

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Posted by: @batpred

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For the common benefit, a quick update on this. 

...

I would absolutely not recommend taking the DIY approach with these lithium based batteries. Even an experienced installer will find it unnecessarily complicated, unless they are just building a second battery. 

Also, I still do not have the cells "balanced", they do not seem to charge to 100%. 

Having built and installed 3 of the Seplos upright V4 kits I'd have to politely disagree.

 

...

 

I'd thoroughly recommend the V4 DIY kits for the money they cost.

There may be a point to do diy builds of batteries as a team building exercise or to help learn in some cases. Just because problem solving skills are developed by solving problems.. If done collaboratively, it can perhaps also help with community spirit.

But if you take a look at the current price of 15kwh batteries available from UK warehouses from ebay (I am not even considering aliexpress..), the ROI seems negative. 

Just search 15kWh 51.2V 300Ah LiFePO4 Solar Battery Storage Battery

Posted by: @batpred

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But if you take a look at the current price of 15kwh batteries available from UK warehouses from ebay (I am not even considering aliexpress..), the ROI seems negative. 

Please identify (some of) the batteries you're referring to (give the URL)
and provide an example ROI calculation.

ATM we don't know whether you're referring to ready-built batteries,

or to raw LiFePO4 cells which could be installed into an enclosure from Seplos or Fogstar.

@transparent 

They are ready to use. The shortlinks are .us but they are available from the UK. 

This one is going for £1000: https:// ebay.us/m/E1shee Solar Energy 15kWh Home Storage Battery for Solar & Backup 51.2V 300Ah LiFePo4

1100 https:// ebay.us/m/qKwYkF 48V 300Ah Lithium Battery 15KWh Solar Energy For Home Storage PV BMS

Similar ~1050: https:// ebay.us/m/jNJkFH FelicityESS LUX-X-48100LG01 low voltage stackable LFP solar battery storage

In terms of ROI, what I meant is regarding the extra effort when building a similar DIY battery from Fogstar. They cost £1600-1800 so the client pays an extra 600-800 and spends extra effort to get to the same point and a ready battery. 

Caveat: I did not even order any of this kit, so not a recommendation

Yesterday, I came across others like akku but perhaps the filters for markets are different at this time. Or they are no longer having stock in their UK based warehouse..

I can't get any of those URLs to work...
... even if I remove the obviously incorrect space or non-printable character before the word ebay

The battery storage market in USA is very different to here.
There are lots of new companies which spring up, import a container-load of cells from China, and box them into batteries.

But the US prices don't reflect the quality of what you're buying into.

In the UK it's very rare to buy a nominal 14kWh or 15kWh capacity battery pre-built.
Even if it was delivered on a pallet, how would the recipient be able to move it into position?
It would weigh well over 100Kg.

That's why there's a European market for enclosures from the likes of Seplos and Fogstar.

Posted by: @transparent

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That's why there's a European market for enclosures from the likes of Seplos and Fogstar.

There's always a market for products with heavy marketing. We need to be transparent, @transparent ! Unless this is a joke..

Anyway, the products are there. The one below is available for £1000 at https:// www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127401623029?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=znoiqgyerxi&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=dbvwtUTwST-&stype=1&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

And at the moment only 11 out of 43 are available. Hopefully Fogstar will not buy them before we do...  

@batpred 

So you've bought some then?

What BMS do they have?

What balancer is installed?

Who makes the cells?

What DC breaker is included?

What inverter models are supported?

What aftercare support do you get?