Posted by: @papahuhu

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@majordennisbloodnok 

it is intentional, their USP is that it provides installers a quick and easy commissioning process and remote monitoring. It’s better for the installers if the owners don’t have access to their data or they will be constantly bothering them every time something happens. 
I also suspect the machine learning algorithms are very rudimentary and probably don’t provide significant benefit to the domestic customer above and beyond having a well dialled in weather comp curve and a bit of tweaking with respect to tariffs. 

But my system doesn’t have a web interface, so it does provide some additional value in being able to adjust heating settings without the need to interact with the horrible Samsung controller interface. It is also useful to have the solar gain functionality as the node is situated in a room where there is extensive glazing. It does keep very tightly controlled room temps without overshooting or on/off cycling. At least it does now it’s fixed. 2 months ago I hated it and was planning its removal, but now I have to conclude it is of real value to me.

A very reasonable appraisal of homely.

Don't get me wrong- I agree it has it's place and it isnt a bad product, as long as customers are not mis-sold a concept as we were that it will save 20% compared with well set up manufacturer controls. Our testing has proved that it can almost match manufacturer control efficiencies, with really minimal effort and as you say the temp node offers good flexibility as well. I have had to spend many hours on our set up in home assistant, albeit that is partly for pleasure as well as I find the data genuinely interesting and like creating various graphs from it 🙂 

If they stopped being so obtuse with data access and got the balance right with supporting end users I'd even go as far as to say it would be quite a good product.

@benson boys and their toys!
Given all the appalling goings on in the modern day equivalent of the Hellfire club, finding one’s pleasure in having a tinker with data and graphics is very much on the harmless scale of things. My son is off doing a PhD in AGI and is a bit handy with statistics and data science, if you ever get stuck with data analysis methodology let me know and I’ll ask him. I had a career that had experimental statistics at its core and yet I always struggled with it, having to pass it to a statistician. 

@papahuhu I just use chatgbt 😆 

In all seriousness it is good at yaml code which is what is needed for home assistant to set up my various COP graphs. It does produce a fair amount of errors but with the right prompting it normally fixes them, and along the way I pick up parts of the logic with respect to how the code works.

@benson 

yes, I keep forgetting those tools do these things now. Why don’t you load your heat pump data into it and run a multivariate regression analysis to see what insights that may provide into suggested changes to improve efficiency. It might output something novel.

Posted by: @papahuhu

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@benson 

yes, I keep forgetting those tools do these things now. Why don’t you load your heat pump data into it and run a multivariate regression analysis to see what insights that may provide into suggested changes to improve efficiency. It might output something novel.

Yep- already done that....nothing novel as such but some general feedback about working well and stable IAT being the crucial performance metric. It was very useful I have to say when balancing our radiators. 

Chatgbt and the like does require some caution as it will provide answers based on assumptions, but implies them as absolute fact in its responses. Still, there is no denying that it is an excellent tool and resource.

@toodles Thanks for sharing this screenshot, which I suppose you are able to see due to your access to the installer ("connect") dashboard. I'm currently discussing with my installer how to get more data, because the amount of data supplied by Homely to end users is pathetic really. I'm curious, can you also get tables of COP and Delta-T on this dashboard? What other exciting data is accessible to installers? Once I know this I will insist that my installer shares a bit more with me.

I wonder if anyone has managed to tap into the Modbus on their ASHP. It's beyond my technical ability, but I imagine it wouldn't be that hard or expensive, certainly cheaper than the £550 for an open energy monitor.

Thanks!

Posted by: @odd_lion

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I wonder if anyone has managed to tap into the Modbus on their ASHP. It's beyond my technical ability, but I imagine it wouldn't be that hard or expensive, certainly cheaper than the £550 for an open energy monitor.

Absolutely. There are quite a few of us who communicate locally with our heat pumps - probably more than use something like Homely.

Whilst you say it’s beyond your technical ability, one of the benefits of this forum is the support we give each other. There are plenty here who have been guided through setups they’d’ve found daunting if they’d had to work it all out alone. Who knows, you might find yourself deciding to follow that route….

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @odd_lion

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I wonder if anyone has managed to tap into the Modbus on their ASHP. It's beyond my technical ability, but I imagine it wouldn't be that hard or expensive, certainly cheaper than the £550 for an open energy monitor.

Absolutely. There are quite a few of us who communicate locally with our heat pumps - probably more than use something like Homely.

Whilst you say it’s beyond your technical ability, one of the benefits of this forum is the support we give each other. There are plenty here who have been guided through setups they’d’ve found daunting if they’d had to work it all out alone. Who knows, you might find yourself deciding to follow that route….

Thanks @majordennisbloodnok. I'm not scared of wiring or tapping into Modbus etc, just haven't come across this in my travels so I would definitely require some tips from others on the forum.

I'm amazed that Homely et al are being allowed to keep end users ignorant (ie, consumer shouldn't know or understand, just pay the bills and see the numbers we give you), it's a very unhealthy and entirely unsatisfying arrangement.

@odd_lion I’m all for having access to data. Just be cognisant that the heat pump manufacturer has agreed a certain comms configuration with homely that doesn’t impact upon product warranty. It is a possibility (not a certainty) that deviating from that configuration may impact warranty obligations. For example, homely have told me transferring full access to connect to myself is possible, but it will invalidate my consumer protections. Just something to add to the decision tree.

@odd_lion Hello King of the Jungle, the (very approximate) COP is reported at the top of the History screen and yes, you can see the Flow & return temps; in my case, as I have an LLH, it only shows the primary circuit temps. I have also included a shot of the list of available data.

Regarding access to the modbus, I think @majordennisbloodnok may be able to assist you with some ideas here. Regards, Toodles.

@papahuhu Oh Really? I’m glad I had my permission granted in the earlier days then! I fail to see how being able to view the data via the Homely system using connect might be detrimental to any warranty conditions. I do believe you Papahuhu - there do seem to be some strange attitudes and ideas abounding!!!!Regards, Toodles.

@toodles 

Cut from my communications with them:

I should also make you aware that removing installer access, making configuration changes yourself, or moving away from the original installer may have warranty implications. This can apply to a range of warranties, including the heat pump manufacturer’s warranty, workmanship warranties, and, in some cases, aspects of Homely’s support and warranty, depending on the nature of the changes and the ongoing maintenance arrangements.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,

Customer Support Team