Next question:  Our fixed rate tarif with Octopus ends on the 15th.  Using their website to see what tarif they recommend for heat pump is useless as it recommends Octopus Cosy which has cheap slots and dear slots so would best suite timed heating.  So I'm wondering if anyone has experience with Octopus while using heat pump?  Is there a good tarif for this or should we just not fix a rate until we have it installed? Thanks

p.s. My partner was talking with one of the residents that has their installation physically fitted (but not operational yet) and they have received no paperwork or information at all yet. Looks like free means take what you're given and don't ask.

@ellyse We have an 8 kW Daikin ASHP and are on the Cosy tariff. We have 27 kWh of battery but would have had to think hard about which tariff to use if lacking the means to run the pump 24/7 from battery. Though Agile may offer cheaper HH’s spread over the full 24 hours, they do vary and to make the most of them you would have to scrutinise the daily tables. With Cosy there is a 6 hour slot to ride over if you wish to avoid the medium tariff and a 3 hour slot at the most expensive rate to try and avoid. If you have an EV, there are other tariffs to consider but I have no experience of those. Only you will know whether you need the heating on 24/7 or maybe late afternoon and evenings then in the early morning only. A number of factors to consider - so no one solution for all.😒 Regards, Toodles.

Think Cosy tariff is a name that is very misleading, it should be called battery tariff. Heat pump run best on a low and slow setting. Run on weather compensation. The cosy tariff encourages the opposite. Do your sums. Without battery standard tariff may well be the cheapest.

@ellyse I’m on octopus and initially flux because I had batteries.  17 pence per kw from 2-5am now since I have an EV charger I’m on Go and it’s 7p per kw from 11.30 through 5am. Feedback payment reduced to 15p though. But octopus are friendly and helpful so chat with them. 

in terms of your heating system from experience and not opinion they are generally fitted and run like normal heating systems and it’s all wrong.  Flow rate, flow temp and how you balance and use it is crucial. So is insulation and I installed loads of it in mine.  If you look up my recent thread there are tons on it regarding all these points. 

in terms of paperwork, if they are registered, and they have to be, then you will get paperwork once the system is registered with your energy supplier. You will likely get an insurance policy and a guarantee as well. But if your house was surveyed, and it has to be then all this should have been discussed with you but likely it wasn’t and sounds like you are going down the normal route and you need to get up to speed on what you should get, where and how and able to determine if it’s going in correctly. If floors are coming up and pipes installed in your loft etc, then you need to know that it’s correct type and fitted properly before floors go down.  It’s you thats paying the bills to heat areas that shouldn’t be heated because they couldn’t be bothered. Let them see you are photographing everything, they have to in case they are inspected but I have no idea what photos they used for my accreditation because all my pipework had to get torn back out again months later. 

I can’t emphasise enough that you make sure you get this correct before they leave. 

Info read from neighbour's heat pump this morning is:  mitsubishi ecodan R32 6kw. 

(we have a shared garden).

@ellyse I think Mitsubishi are decent pumps and I’m sure the ecoden may be linked with your existing boiler to provide a backup. My heating engineer said they were good. 6kw is quite small so I would expect not too expensive to run. The r32 bit is the type of gas inside it which is irrelevant to users. 

send some photos of the neighbours install, in particular the piping. I’m sure the keen eyes on here will find issues. I’m hoping not mind you, there must be good installers out there, the best ones I’m to believe have a heat geek qualification. If you are friendly with the neighbours then get them to give you a walk around inside. 

Posted by: @ellyse

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p.s. My partner was talking with one of the residents that has their installation physically fitted (but not operational yet) and they have received no paperwork or information at all yet. Looks like free means take what you're given and don't ask.

@transparent will give you chapter and verse which you’ll probably need to get them to behave differently, but I understand that the MCS rules say they MUST give you the paperwork and instructions. And show you how to use it.

Yes, @judith is correct. You must be given site-specific information about your installation, not just generic documents from manufacturers of appliances and devices within the system.

I posted the relevant section of Part-L of the Building Regulations here earlier in this topic, but it's worthwhile repeating this:

And I'll add parts of Section-8 here too:

Part-L is Conservation of Fuel and Power.

It's one of a series of Approved Documents which provide Regulatory Guidance, based on the Building Act 1984.
The Act itself is too general in its intentions to require 'good building practice'.
The Approved Documents are subject to regular updates as standards are upgraded and new materials become available.

The Approved Documents can be varied with the agreement of a Building Control Surveyor.
After all, some historic properties couldn't be expected to comply with the requirements just because they need to change the heating system!

Unless such a variation has been agreed, the Approved Documents can be enforced by a Local Planning Authority (LPA).

Approved Documents are intended to be understood by us ordinary members of the public.
If building works don't comply, then we can notify our local Building Control Officers and they will investigate.

Builders and installers can be required to put things right.
If they fail to do so, or the alterations still don't meet the standards, then they can be fined.
The LPA also has the right to appoint someone else to correct the work, especially if there are breaches of safety issues.

As you will realise by reading elsewhere in this Forum, very few Heat-Pump installations do comply with Part-L.
This is why I suggested that you make yourself acquainted with your local District/Borough Councillors.
Everything can be solved... but you need to know the right channels!

Forum Members here are standing by to help too of course!

@transparent it’s quite correct that there are documents that fill you full of confidence that your installer will do a good job or else. But if you have ever had any dealings with the financial ombudsman then discussing the issues with my dog were more fruitful.  The so called MCS accreditation is worthless, in my opinion, not fit for purpose. 

if there is one thing you must do then it is to make sure it’s installed properly.  The battle you may face if you don’t may be painful and ugly. Towards the end of my battle I was hated. I was the thorn in their side that they couldn’t shake off. 

you say it’s free but the installer is getting paid handsomely, wants it done as quickly as possible, and off to the next job.  In my case they fitted substandard parts, cost cutting, and put together so badly it would never work properly.  My solar was the same. They surveyed my house they said but turned up asking me when I had installed the dormers that had always been there and that the solar panels they had wouldn’t fit.  They showed me a photograph of my house, which was somebody else’s.  It was painful and very stressful and improvements I was looking forward to became hell.   I wish I had known about this forum before. 

Posted by: @david999

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The so called MCS accreditation is worthless

It depends which side of the fence you're on.

The MCS regulations do little to protect customers,
but they're of great value to the accredited installers.
That's what enables them to access the £7500 of tax-payer money to subsidise their work installing heat-pumps. 🙄 

I must emphasise what @david999 wrote earlier

Posted by: @david999

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send some photos of the neighbours install, in particular the piping.

Yes please @ellyse !!

A photo of the pipes connecting your neighbour's Ecodan ASHP to the house would be very useful.

The way in which pipes are installed and insulated tells us a great deal about the overall efficiency of running the system.

@transparent But it doesn't feel right to post photos of another persons home.  They installed the heat pump underneath the bathroom window. Electical wiring goes up the wall about 6 inches to the right of the window.  Water pipes come from behind the heat pump to the left a good foot or so, then up the wall to the left of the window. Wiring got a plastic cover and box with a big red switch.  The pipes are lagged with black foam cover. Looks like both go up into the attic. (bungalow don't forget). 

When they do mine I will force myself to struggle to get outside to photograph mine for you. They have started the 2nd group of installs now. No clue when mine will be. 

@ellyse I think if you explain what we have told you here to your neighbour it’s unlikely they would be upset.  I wish someone had approached me in November last year, I wish someone had told me about this forum last year.  A couple of months ago I finally got mine how it should have been in November. But others haven’t been so lucky. 

what’s their plans for insulation, cavity, cladding, what’s going inside.