@editor yes, simplicity of design is often the best route. Glyn's video's are very informative in that regard

@heacol True, but equally there is also the law of diminishing returns and if you can do 90% of the job, spending a large amount of resources chasing the the last 10% doesn't always make sense. Perhaps the best and lowest risk route is to get a good professional design and fit it yourself, however judging what is a good professional design isn't always easy as all the dissatisfied MCS customers will vouch.

@heacol 

I can certainly concur with this, expertise takes a massive amount of investment in effort, you are not paying for the job time, but the 10,000 hours spent [hopefully] becoming an expert

I started from scratch as a reasonably competent DIYer (i.e, I am able to solder or braze copper pipes, but  had zero knowledge of heat pumps - primary sources of info on YouTube were Heat Geek, Urban Plumbers, John Cantor, Glyn Hudson and Ian - on this forum ... plus others ).  I accumulated a massive amount of knowledge over many many many months, much of it retrospective so have done quite a bit of re-work of my system and I will probably only get to a "professional" level install by the end of this year (so 2 years after starting) due to "learning on the job through my own mistakes" and fixing things I got wrong ...I have some stuff still to fix - flow rate being the final issue (lack of experience with microflex - failure to appreciate difference between copper and plastic, esp over long runs)

Any regrets .. No, but if you want a good install in a reasonable amount of time, spend your effort on finding a competent installer and pay him/her for the 10,000 hours spent gaining his/her knowledge 😀 

William

@william1066 I used many of the same resources as you William and I do have quite a compulsive personality when it comes to understanding something I want to do. 

A good understanding of maths, physics and IT can take you a long way and I have to say I’ve saved many tens of thousands of pounds over the years by being prepared to learn something that doesn’t require another degree. 

There is the cost of time I suppose but I generally enjoy learning new skills and if something should go wrong at some time in the future then I am in an excellent position to save some more money. 

Not for everyone I agree but people shouldn’t be put off when it’s not actually rocket science (unless of course it is rocket science, then leave well alone 😂)

@heacol completely agree, I trust my plumber and he could do it, but in life and ASHP's experience is everything, I'm also useless with engineering so value that experience in others, it's a simple space though, I have a handy little woodshed for water tanks or whatever right through the wall from a good place to stick an ASHP, they guy that quoted reckoned it was a more simple installation than he usually does, but then I guess it's always easier when no one lives in it yet. 

I guess my first job is heat loss survey, can I be trusted to do that? should I get someone in?   

Posted by: @william1066

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@heacol 

I can certainly concur with this, expertise takes a massive amount of investment in effort, you are not paying for the job time, but the 10,000 hours spent [hopefully] becoming an expert

I started from scratch as a reasonably competent DIYer (i.e, I am able to solder or braze copper pipes, but  had zero knowledge of heat pumps - primary sources of info on YouTube were Heat Geek, Urban Plumbers, John Cantor, Glyn Hudson and Ian - on this forum ... plus others ).  I accumulated a massive amount of knowledge over many many many months, much of it retrospective so have done quite a bit of re-work of my system and I will probably only get to a "professional" level install by the end of this year (so 2 years after starting) due to "learning on the job through my own mistakes" and fixing things I got wrong ...I have some stuff still to fix - flow rate being the final issue (lack of experience with microflex - failure to appreciate difference between copper and plastic, esp over long runs)

Any regrets .. No, but if you want a good install in a reasonable amount of time, spend your effort on finding a competent installer and pay him/her for the 10,000 hours spent gaining his/her knowledge 😀 

William

I pay joiners £220 a day on day rates, £160 for the plumber, £2- 300 for a spark, I'd expect to pay more for a heating engineer and have no problem with that, problem is finding one, so far all I can find is companies with big sales talk and that one quote. 

@bontwoody I share the same approach to things in all things building, I quite like the learning curve and spending weeks often making a complete mess of things before I get it right, but when it comes to electricity, water and anything engineering I'm not the best person, my next job is plastering miles of wall then spraying them, piece of cake, then a new multifuel stove, absolute breeze compared to ASHP's...wait..I think what I'm saying is I like all the easy jobs 😀

@alan22 plastering! Easy? Now you have put me right off 😂

@alan22 If you dont feel comfortable having a go Alan, then by all means get someone to do it for you. For a ball park heat loss calculation you could essentially treat your stable as one very large room. There are various increasing difficult ways to do it, starting with the heatgeek cheat sheet Heat Loss Calculation: Heat Pump & Boiler Sizing Guide (heatgeek.com) and ending with a room by room survey.

There is no perfect way but what you will probably find is that they all give roughly the same answer. I would check out these two links if you fancy having a go

What Size Heat Pump? | Energy Stats UK (energy-stats.uk)

Solid Fuel to Vaillant Air Source Heat Pump: 1980s Bungalow (youtube.com)

@bontwoody cheers for that, first glance looks suitably complicated 😀 

I'm running a small electric fan heater in the space now with a thermometer at the other end to start to get a feel for how much heat it takes to lift the temperature, I have a dehumidifier going to check the humidity levels at the same time, so far I have established it's a very big space 😀 

@alan22 Good experimental skills Alan 😆 What is the floor area of the barn?

@bontwoody and @william1066 No problem if you are happy with an SCOP of 3 instead of 5 or 6.