@lucia great idea, but it’s unlikely they’d agree to appear on the same show recording… several manufacturers have stopped engaging with me after I challenged their approaches. That said, most are still willing to reply to written questions, so I could definitely put together an article on this instead.

I posted before about minimum standards. Look, all works completed in the construction industry are as good as the engineer is willing to do or is capable of doing, I don't think a badge or company name gives you any standard of quality outside of the manufacturing process. I have been part of industry boards, lobby groups and standard committees, I even just filled out and submitted a review on the new consultation for the BUS changes with Ofgem. All I seem to write about for the last 20 years is standards, quality and training this is mostly what needs to change in our industry. 

My View is, if they don't do the maintenance correctly, challenge them, ask for a refund and find someone better. Please feel free to copy my post about the checks which cover most standard services and send to Daikin, ask them why they did not make these checks, if you do, please let me know what they say.

@ashp-bobba Thank you for that advice; I will challenge Daikin on their service checks and come back with their reply. Regards, Toodles.

@toodles Good Luck 🙂

@toodles please do, and let us know what they say.

@editor I await their reply… Toodles.

@toodles your account struck a chord with us and it raises some serious questions about what’s being claimed vs what’s being done during heat pump servicing.

You can read the full story here: https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/under-the-cover-are-heat-pump-service-contracts-fulfilling-their-promises/

If anyone else has had similar experiences (or very different ones) we’d love to hear from you. And if there are any service engineers in the community willing to weigh in on what a proper annual service should involve, please jump in. Your insights could really help inform and protect other homeowners.

And here's a follow up article on the same subject that's an interesting read: https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/how-should-a-heat-pump-be-serviced-manufacturers-offer-varying-answers/

I wanted to ask something in relation to this subject. I have just watched the latest podcast of all things bad from Mars and the team and I wonder if there is a common issue across the board in all things heating in relation to bad installations, bad energy consumption and in this case bad or unclear servicing!

I love your podcast Mars, keep them up, I may go on one one day if you would ever have me haha 🙂

For example, we know one of the biggest issues "covered in the latest podcast" is lack of training and willing, I always say the service you get is as good as the engineer on the day. But in relation to servicing I was thinking what did the engineer service when he came to look at my boiler in my house(when I had one) all those years and I though I can list both what they did and did not cover which may revel the bigger issue is its not often any heating equipment was ever serviced correctly: (mad thing is, I am a 33yr veteran all things heating ex engineer and I never did my own stuff)

Boiler service time taken 30 minutes, cost £100 (relative cost per hour £200) 

Boiler service items covered:

1) Burnt Gas analysed (legally req)

2) Boiler works (check)

3) magnetic filter changed (cleaned)

4) stat turns on and off (check)

5) Rads get hot (touched)

6) Paperwork issued  

Boiler items never checked by anyone ever

1) Cylinder

2) hot water

3) chemicals in water

4) correct operation and controls (weather comp)

5) internal items 

6) pumps 

7) brackets and fixings

8) balancing 

9) running costs 

10) fuel consumption and efficiency

ASHP service time taken 2hrs, cost £300 (relative cost per hour £150 cheaper than gas boilers) 

 ASHP items covered 

1) Evaporator cleaned

2) ASHP works (check)

3) magnetic filter changed (cleaned)

4) stat turns on and off (check) + intelligent control and APP check

5) Rads get hot (touched) (measured if only by ASHP sensors but more than a boiler was able)

6) Paperwork issued  

7) Cylinder

8) hot water

9) chemicals in water

10) correct operation and controls (weather comp) (also as above)

5) internal items inside the machine 

6) pumps (flow rates it a must as these systems are much more flow sensative)

7) brackets and fixings

8) balancing (again checked as if slightly unbalanced rooms do not work like they used to on a boiler)

9) running costs (always as this is a much larger impact now)

10) fuel consumption and efficiency (always as this is very important)

I sat on a consultancy board last week to discuss levels of poor service to ASHP's in the industry, service items required in relation to low temperature heating and related costs. I tried to point out due to the essential relationship between a good performing system and the costs of energy it is important that a service involves ensuring that the system runs as close to its commissioned performance as possible for as long as possible to keep the system from drifting into wasting energy. Although servicing an ASHP is more expensive overall its actually less per hour if the company spends the required 2hrs it takes to service the whole system.

My conclusion was that its evident that most heating systems in the past (lest say 30 years) were never carried out correctly and the driving factor is likely cost which eventually makes it a minimum combustion burn test, a reading test with a wipe over the machine in 30 mins to charge lower price and cover the legal stuff. A poor performing gas heating system would be unnoticeable on a fuel bill.  My fear is knowing most of the industry will need all the plumbers and heating engineers to transfer over to Low Carbon Tch Low Temp heating (ASHP's). These engineers will bring these corner cutting habits but the consequence will be much higher on the energy bills.

With regards to Manufacturers service agreements (they will be as good as the engineer on the day) no different to small or big companies. If all checks are standardised (lets say like a service on your car) once trained, any engineer can complete the list and do a good service if they are willing to use the skills they have and complete it correctly. 

I unfortunately believe that it is a simple matter of the habits of all are showing up more in this industry, most customers wonder why should I get my ASHP serviced as its just a fridge and I never get that serviced, you must because it is connected to a 3rd party system, its not as simple as just a fridge, that is just the actual HP part your hole system is a finely balanced hybrid of heat energy moved by water, pumps and valves that must work effectively. most do not want to pay or pay as little as possible, you may get what you pay for! those who pay well should expect excellent servicing and this is where you get as good as the engineer on the day, you should expect the best if you pay for this service, check what the list of service items are and check that they complete them.

As a customer champion I often try to study what goes wrong in the industry as a whole and see what the root causes are, at the moment what I see is developing changing industry trying to teach (i am included in this) old dogs new tricks as well as new fresh engineers, as an industry we must forget old habits, we must perform better, we must learn and fast. 

Please Note: 

I have met some of the best engineers in my industry I think I might ever get the opportunity to meet, I have rubbed shoulders with highly educated and skilled people that can innovate calculate and perform doing the industry proud, I have also met engineers that are on a sliding lower scale all the way down to scaring me with some actions. We are like all good industries we come in all shapes and sizes with skills varying across the board, this is not unique and actually probably describes every industry but a few. My point above is not that Manufacturers, companies, engineers or levels of skill are bad or good but that they vary and until there are standardisations it is up to us to seek out the best and hope for a good service provided.   

Posted by: @ashp-bobba

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I love your podcast Mars, keep them up, I may go on one one day if you would ever have me haha 🙂

Appreciate the kind words about the podcast, and you're welcome on any time... have some suitable topics next week Friday we're recording, and will send you an email shortly.

In relation to this thread, you’ve hit on what I think is the heart of the issue: inconsistent servicing is not a new problem... we’re just seeing the consequences more clearly now.

I agree completely that standardisation is key. We need something closer to an automotive service model that's transparent, checklist-driven and with expectations clearly communicated to both engineers and homeowners. It’s not about criticising individuals or companies, but about creating a framework where the “engineer on the day” has the training, tools and time to do the job properly; and the homeowner has confidence in what’s being done. The fact that Daikin's "excuse" to @toodles was that it's a monotonous, repetitive job that leads to complacency is simply not acceptable. 

Mars, keep up the good work.  A small group of us have the opportunity to drive up standards, this industry is going to grow exponentially and quicker than normal due to Government backing. I think the effect we have is small but very important.

I do not agree that this service work is any more monotonous than any other job that could be monotonous. It is a lack of control and evidence, my company takes pictures of everything we do on a service and then we show the customer and point at components we have touched giving the customer a reassuring walk around the job, a bit like the video you seem to get with a car service these days, this helps us the office staff and the customer to be assured our engineer does the whole job. for example below I have attached from a service last week, this was 4 of 40 pictures our Raedene placed on the service record for our customer and also helps me know if there was a flow issue in a few weeks I can likely rule out a blocked strainer filter, as we cleaned it it is probably not going to have a flow issue.

By the way, I also think our industry need to get on board and start promoting female engineers, our company is no longer male dominated in the last 10 years and its something I am very proud of. This change alone helped drive a better standard by often offering a better and different mindset and approach to engineering, our young Rae is an outstanding engineer and often makes me smile when she corrects our 30yr + veteran engineers.