Posted by: @derek-m

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It should also be noted that the actual heat loss of bedrooms can be lower than the calculated value, due to heat rising and solar gain through the roof.

Excellent observation @derek-m, modern well insulated homes with low infiltration/exfiltration AC/h values tend to suffer from overheating upstairs. This is due to simple physics with warm air being less dense and rising in the heating season. Modern lifestyle factors compound this, such as increasing preference for open plan living and larger hallways, stairs and landings, or atriums, where warm air can easily rise.

Non-scientific estimations by myself seem to show the upstairs of uniformly heated two storey dwellings can be 2degC warmer than downstairs. We can usually turn down heat output upstairs, but what if there's a heating capacity shortfall downstairs, or the downstairs emitters have not been sized to compensate for heat energy migration to other spaces? This isn't considered in any room by room heat loss sizing calculation software that I'm aware of. They all assume closed rooms/zones.

Maybe we should flip our home layouts upside for better thermal comfort, with living spaces upstairs and sleeping rooms downstairs?! 😉

I can’t help but feel a simple solution could be to design houses once again with stairs that are hidden behind a door so the whole of th upstairs can be easily isolated. Failing that, of course, the really low-tech solution of keeping all upstairs doors closed so only the landing overheats.

I’m well aware there are many homes where my generalisations wouldn’t work, of course.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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could be to design houses once again

Without an upstairs?

@majordennisbloodnok Aha Bloodnock! I have a sneaky plan, Eccles, put the upstairs in the basement!😉 Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok Aha Bloodnock! I have a sneaky plan, Eccles, put the upstairs in the basement!😉 Toodles.

Our last house it was, coolest and most stable temperature summer and winter room in the house, very quiet also. The upstairs was left for guests, way to warm in the summer.

@johnmo I suppose that gave them a ‘warm welcome’ 😉

There’s something to be said for ‘living’ upstairs in the heated environment and retiring to the lower level to sleep. Anyone carried out an analysis of energy consumption with such an arrangement? Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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could be to design houses once again

Without an upstairs?

He, he.

You got me rereading what I posted. Fortunately, I did say “once again with…” so there was a qualifying part to the sentence.

Houses certainly often used to hide stairs behind doors, probably so the occupants could heat rooms separately rather than the whole house at a time. I can’t see a good reason for not moving back to that compartmental design.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Houses certainly often used to hide stairs behind doors, probably so the occupants could heat rooms separately rather than the whole house at a time. I can’t see a good reason for not moving back to that compartmental design.

 

Houses used to have almost no insulation, so compartmentalising made a big difference.  For well insulated houses the difference is smaller, because the thermal conductivity between rooms is much greater than the thermal conductivity between the inside and the outside.

Agreed, @jamespa, and understood. However, since an issue related to open plan design has been mentioned I would suggest there is still a place for designing in the option to compartmentalise even if that choice is rarely used and the doors are left open. In fairness there may well be fire safety benefits as well, so I stand by my earlier statement; I can’t see a good argument for avoiding that sort of design.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Agreed, @jamespa, and understood. However, since an issue related to open plan design has been mentioned I would suggest there is still a place for designing in the option to compartmentalise even if that choice is rarely used and the doors are left open. In fairness there may well be fire safety benefits as well, so I stand by my earlier statement; I can’t see a good argument for avoiding that sort of design.

Fair enough and I agree that a closed staircase would reduce hot air rising, although I suspect that convection downstairs together with transmission through an uninsulated ceiling/floor would still convey a lot of heat to the upstairs.  Nevertheless it will doubtless have an effect (and you could insulate the floor/ceiling void).  Also, as you say, if its fire resistant will also aid with fire compartmentalisation.  So from a purely technical function perspective I wouldn't dispute that there is no good reason to avoid this design style. 

Of course houses are for living in as well, and many people prefer fairly (or almost completely) open plan.  That said, fashion has probably made this more popular than its due and fashions have a habit of reversing!

@majordennisbloodnok

You do realise that by having more doors, it means that there are more doors that your wife can slam in your face. 😋 

Posted by: @derek-m

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@majordennisbloodnok

You do realise that by having more doors, it means that there are more doors that your wife can slam in your face. 😋 

😁

After more than a quarter of a century married, she’s more than inventive enough already if the situation calls (and I have deserved it on occasion). Another door or two would only serve to reduce the volume; silver linings and all that…