Renewable Heating Hub Heat Pump Forums

Search with Wattson
Forums
Renewable Heating
Air Source Heat Pum...
12kW Samsung gen 6 ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Joining the Renewable Heating Hub forums is completely free and only takes a minute. By registering you’ll be able to ask questions, join discussions, follow topics you’re interested in, bookmark useful threads and receive notifications when someone replies. Non-registered members also do not have access to our AI features. When choosing your username, please note that it cannot be changed later, so we recommend avoiding brand or product names. Before registering, please take a moment to read the Forum Rules & Terms of Use so we can keep the community helpful, respectful and informative for everyone. Thanks for joining!

12kW Samsung gen 6 short cycling

 
Page 3 / 32
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by iantelescope 2 years ago
374 Posts
17 Users
63 Reactions
122.6 K Views
RSS
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 24/11/2022 3:04 pm  

@hughf well, that doesn't sound ideal. 😩



   
ReplyQuote
 HughF
(@hughf)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 489
24/11/2022 3:08 pm  

Posted by: @craig1980
↑

@hughf well, that doesn't sound ideal. 😩

Whether it will make a whole lot of difference to your COP remains to be seen, but usually, with a modulating compressor (all modern ASHPs are inverter driven) and a modulating fan on the evaporator, you'd also want a speed controllable pump. This way when the ASHP modulates down, it can vary the pump speed to keep the delta-T within the optimum range.

 


Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
👍
1
ReplyQuote
Transparent
 Transparent
(@transparent)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 3342
24/11/2022 3:18 pm  

That's a question to ask the installers.

Why did they suggest the Samsung unit?

Did they already have data to show that there was negligible increase in the COP by using an ASHP with the pump-speed variable?


Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
👍
1
ReplyQuote
 HughF
(@hughf)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 489
24/11/2022 3:38 pm  

Samsung mono controller manual attached, this clearly shows the connection for external PWM pump control, Connection 10 on the main PCB.

It even says 'If you need an external inverter driven pump, make sure it is the same as that already installed' - then gives the grundfoss part number.

samsung-mono-controller-kit-manual.pdf

 


Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
👍
1
ReplyQuote
 HughF
(@hughf)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 489
24/11/2022 3:39 pm  

Posted by: @transparent
↑

That's a question to ask the installers.

Why did they suggest the Samsung unit?

Did they already have data to show that there was negligible increase in the COP by using an ASHP with the pump-speed variable?

I doubt you'd get a meaningful answer from the installers.

 


Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
👍
2
ReplyQuote
 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
24/11/2022 5:04 pm  

@craig1980

Hi Craig,

PWM stands for Pulse Width Modulation, it is a type of control signal used quite often to vary the speed of pump motors and the like. If you Google PWM you may find a detailed explanation.



   
👍
1
ReplyQuote
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 25/11/2022 9:33 pm  

@hughf looks like I should leave that alone.



   
ReplyQuote
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 25/11/2022 9:35 pm  

@transparent I've had a chance to look through exactly what I have. 

MCS certs for both.

NCIS certs for both.

Electrical installation certificate for both.

A copy of the G98 application.

No schematics or pre installation survey, I have asked for these so I'll see what I get. 

 



   
ReplyQuote
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 25/11/2022 9:38 pm  

@transparent I doubt they'd know. They fit Samsung or Vaillant but normally Samsung in larger properties. The Vaillant they fit is not a monobloc.



   
ReplyQuote
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 25/11/2022 9:39 pm  

@hughf so, does this mean that had a different pump been connected we would be able to adjust pump speed? Thanks



   
ReplyQuote
 Craig1980
(@craig1980)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 146
Topic starter 25/11/2022 9:44 pm  

Just as an update to this post yesterday's COP including water heating was very nearly 4. Electric usage was down at 11.1 with generation at 44. Happy with the numbers but still turning off for 20 seconds every 8 mins. I've turned the bedroom rad back on to see if more emitters would help but it hasn't. 

Sat at between 18 and 19 all day except when solar gain took us above 21 degrees.

Also bled all rads today and got a decent amount of air out of 3 or 4 rads. 



   
ReplyQuote
 HughF
(@hughf)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 489
25/11/2022 10:04 pm  

Posted by: @craig1980
↑

@hughf so, does this mean that had a different pump been connected we would be able to adjust pump speed? Thanks

If you wired it up with a pwm primary pump and used the samsung controller directly, I'd expect you'd see that COP up between 4 and 5 in the current weather.

If the Samsung controller had control of it's pump speed then it would be able to modulate all three components of the 'machine' - fan/pump/compressor.

I'm actually genuinely shocked that the Samsung monobloc isn't really very monobloc at all, and needs and external pump and flow switch. It makes me feel much more happy with my decision to go for an off-brand manufacturer for my own system (I went for a Cool Energy, made by SPRSUN in PRC, built on a complete Carel commercial refrigeration platform of parts)...

 


Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
👍
1
ReplyQuote
Page 3 / 32
Forum Jump:
  Previous Topic
Next Topic  

Currently viewing this topic 5 guests.

Share:

SPONSORS

Join Us!

Installer Finder

Degrees of Separation

Latest Posts

SPONSORS

Click to access the login or register cheese
Protected By
Shield Security PRO