Computer Program or Computer Programme – The Definitive Debate
Posted by: @djhBTW, it is computer programs; programmes are things you watch on TV.
Sorry, but programs and programmes are one and the same thing. I’ll happily admit it’s rare to find someone referring to a computer programme but just because most programming literature is American doesn’t mean we absolutely have to use their spelling.
Editor's note: to add context to this debate, you can see where it started. Click here.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
I prefer to use "programme" for computer software as well. While "program" is more common in American English and in technical contexts, "programme" aligns with my personal preference and the British English conventions I follow. Just one of those things.
@djh I’ve had a marathon gardening day today, and I’m knackered, so the software wins in the quote attributions. 😀
Pre-order: The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
Posted by: @toodles
@editor Turing was there first and I suspect he used programme (as I do too!). Toodles.
He, he.
If we're being absolutely strict about it, Turing was still only following on from Ada Lovelace and Charles Babbage. Not sure either of them thought of it as "programming" so the spelling would no doubt remain a moot point but they were both nonetheless British and therefore eminently likely to have used the British version of the word if they had ever written it down.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
@majordennisbloodnok Quite so Bloodnock!
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
Posted by: @majordennisbloodnokIf we're being absolutely strict about it, Turing was still only following on from Ada Lovelace and Charles Babbage. Not sure either of them thought of it as "programming" so the spelling would no doubt remain a moot point but they were both nonetheless British and therefore eminently likely to have used the British version of the word if they had ever written it down.
Off topic alert More pedantically, Augusta King and her Note G while called an algorithm sought to performs actions more diverse than Babbage's earlier work...but she never called it a program.programme and as the Greek πρόγραμμα (prógramma) uses a double m, so shall I.
Quite right, @abernyte. Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace. Arguably the world's first computer programmer and a historical giant.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
It turned out to be quite an interesting question. Two aspects.
First the English spelling was program from its Latin and Greek roots until Victorian times when it became influenced by the French spelling programme.
Secondly as to the usage in computing. This appears to originate from a specific date in March 1953. There was a conference at the NPL from 25-28 of that month and Prof Hartree ended the opening address by saying:
'Lastly, may I press for the use of the spelling "program" without the superfluous terminal "-me". We do not write the French forms "telegramme", "diagramme"; why use the French form "programme"? there has been objection to "program" on the ground that it Is an Americanism and, for this reason (so It is Implied) reprehensible. But It is not an Americanism; reference to the O.E.D. and Fowler's "Modern English Usage" will show that It is a well-established English word, of respectable age, derived from the Greek, through Latin, and that "programme" Is a reintroductlon through the French. When we have a perfectly good English word, why should we prefer a Gallicism? And why, anyway, should a Gallicism be acceptable and an Americanism - even if It were one - unacceptable?'
I can't see any record of the conclusion to that question but in the preface of a book I have 'Automatic Digital Calculators' by Booth & Booth it says that a decision in favour of program was reached:
At the meeting, in addition to Prof Hartree and Andrew Booth there was Alan Turing and many other luminaries (including Christopher Strachey who taught me). So the spelling is not an accident, nor an Americanism, but a deliberate choice by the people who were there. I for one respect their choice. You are free to do as you wish of course, but I feel the force of history is with me.
You're quite right, @djh; the path the spelling has taken is indeed very interesting and in some senses unexpected. Thanks for the information - I've learned something.
That said, the quote you've given had Professor Hartree "pressing for" a standardisation in the spelling, meaning it was not a standard at that point. Nor, as you point out, was there any decision so far as we can see. However, whilst you do mention other eminent names were present there is also no mention of whether or not they agreed with Professor Hartree so I think it might be pushing things a little to turn the request into a fait accompli "deliberate choice by the people who were there".
I certainly stand corrected on my assertion that "program" is specifically an American spelling and I also agree that there is no reason a French influence should be any more nor less acceptable than an American one. However, I would still maintain that being fundamentally a language question any use of the word program(me) should accept that there is no formal standard of spelling making one form wrong and one right; there is currently only "common" and "rare".
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
Posted by: @majordennisbloodnokI think it might be pushing things a little to turn the request into a fait accompli "deliberate choice by the people who were there".
Maybe I wasn't clear, but the decision of the meeting was reported in the preface of the book which I quoted as an image. FWIW, both the Cambridge dictionary and Fowler appear to agree with me (the Oxford dictionary now seems to be behind a paywall or registration or something that I won't investigate).
There's one correct way of spelling computer program, and another way that is only used by idiosyncratic Englishmen who choose to single themselves out for faint ridicule by their choice. JMHO 😆
Posted by: @djhThere's one correct way of spelling computer program, and another way that is only used by idiosyncratic Englishmen who choose to single themselves out for faint ridicule by their choice. JMHO
![]()
According to several online sources, "only" includes not only the British (not just men and not just English), but also Canadians (understandably, given their Gallic influence) and New Zealanders. As you say, it's just your opinion, humble or otherwise, and demonstrably wrong; there are sufficient references to the "idiosyncratic" alternative still being valid and in use that one cannot accurately assert there is only one "correct" spelling.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
- 26 Forums
- 2,152 Topics
- 47.2 K Posts
- 21 Online
- 5,671 Members
Podcast Picks
Latest Posts
-
RE: Electricity price predictions
@diverted-energy I think perhaps our different viewpoin...
By bontwoody , 1 hour ago
-
RE: is a home battery without an EV worth it?
In fairness when the grant went from £5000 to £7500, wh...
By JamesPa , 2 hours ago
-
@mars That response surely deserves a nomination for Tu...
By JamesPa , 2 hours ago
-
RE: Midea ASHP – how to set weather compensation
@pash44pump lots of good advice from others on tests, o...
By JamesPa , 4 hours ago
-
Specifying batteries, pv solar etc using ChatGPT
I thought I'd try to use ChatGPT to specify my requirem...
By Tim441 , 4 hours ago
-
RE: Octopus tariffs - a quick comparison
For our set-up, Octopus GO has been the best option fro...
By ChandyKris , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Ecodan & MelCloud scheduling
When I interviewed Mitsubishi Electric at Installer ear...
By Mars , 9 hours ago
-
RE: Rodents! A word of warning for heat pump owners
@lucia One look at that protection and the rodents will...
By Toodles , 10 hours ago
-
RE: What crazy nonsense are inverter limits and why are they imposed?
@transparent The only reason my DNO knows of these is b...
By Lucia , 14 hours ago
-
RE: A Customer's Lessons Learnt from a Heat Pump Installation in a Large House
🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁
By Lucia , 14 hours ago
-
What is the Heat Geek Guarantee?
We regularly hear from homeowners who are researching i...
By Mars , 1 day ago
-
RE: Help me keep the faith with my air source heat pump installation
@adamk, interesting point. I’ve not focused much on Hea...
By Mars , 16 hours ago
-
Intelligent Octopus Flux (IOF) Review
I promised @toodles that I would provide an update and ...
By Old_Scientist , 1 day ago
-
RE: Solar Power Output – Let’s Compare Generation Figures
@julianc Our solar PV has produced more this August tha...
By Toodles , 2 days ago
-
RE: Who's your electricity provider and what's your tariff?
I am pleased to see the change. We definitely need t...
By Jeff , 2 days ago
-
RE: How Do I Know When the Hot Water Has Run Out?
@transparent that is a very interesting suggestion, tha...
By GrahamF , 3 days ago
-
RE: The good, the bad and the not that great – my heat pump installation
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it is sort of relev...
By cathodeRay , 3 days ago
-
RE: Getting the best out of a heat pump - is Homely a possible answer?
I missed your 22nd June post on this. I am sure it can ...
By cathodeRay , 4 days ago
-
Now posting on the right topic.... With general build...
By benson , 4 days ago