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Electricity, Tariffs, Monitoring & Providers
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Jeff
 Jeff
(@jeff)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 557
04/12/2025 3:13 pm  

Posted by: @jamespa
↑

Posted by: @jeff
↑

It says the infra and boilers are ready in the pilot. The infra has been built and homes are being connected after Xmas. Safety reviews have been passed. The pilot includes offshore wind producing hydrogen. 

Hydrogen boilers for domestic use are entirely a fossil fuel industry con so far as I can understand it.  To produce green (ie carbon free) hydrogen you need to use electrolysis (ie electricity) with a conversion efficiency of about 70%.  If you used the same electricity to power a heat pump you have a conversion efficiency of 300%.  It simply doesn't make sense for domestic heating so far as I can see.

That's not to say hydrogen doesn't have a place, in energy storage and for applications where you need a very high energy density and high temperature applications, but never for domestic heating so far as I can see.

If someone can explain the economics differently Im prepared to change my mind.

 

 

 

I have an inherent distrust of all financial models related to energy in the UK right now 😂 Especially the spin put on the figures, and also the way we are being drip fed extra costs onto bills. I don't trust anyone😂

I don't know if the H100 pilot is planning to release any models. 

IMHO the existing gas network operators would need to put their money where there mouth was and publish some standing charge and unit rates for hydrogen that they could commit to, with whatever caveats were needed. 

Then there could be an informed debate. I suspect any debate would not just be about cost but also about what was deliverable, risks etc. 

Then the government could at least make an informed decision next year, whether we agree with it or not is another matter. 

I struggle with the idea of domestic hydrogen, but would like more information next year. 

 

 



   
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Transparent
 Transparent
(@transparent)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2777
04/12/2025 3:21 pm  

Posted by: @jamespa
↑

The fact that the Gateshead trial is adding just 2% Hydrogen seems like yet another confirmation (as if one were needed). 

Interestingly, if you search online for this Gateshead Trial, the percentage of hydrogen being added can vary widely from one report to another.

Google AI had it as high as 20% when I looked 10-mins ago!

 

To help others understand the significance of what James and I are looking at:

The Gas Act requires that the minimum Calorific Value (CV) of the domestic gas supply is 37MJ/m³

The usual CV is around 39MJ/m³ and is printed on your gas bill each month

The CV of hydrogen is 12MJ/m³

 

To deliver the same amount of energy (Joules) into a property, a hydrogen-only gas supply would need to operate at more than three-times the existing pressure.
Every gas meter in that area would need to be replaced, as would the nozzles on all gas cookers, boilers and fires... unless they were already "hydrogen ready".


This post was modified 8 minutes ago by Transparent

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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 JamesPa
(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 3627
04/12/2025 3:31 pm  

Posted by: @jeff
↑

IMHO the existing gas network operators would need to put their money where there mouth was and publish some standing charge and unit rates for hydrogen that they could commit to, with whatever caveats were needed.

Just tell us how much electrical energy is needed to generate a given amount energy yield from hydrogen.  And then explain how they are going to deal with the 4:1 ratio relative to using the same amount of electrical energy to power a heat pump.  If they can explain this away moderately convincingly then great, we just need to solve the matters @transparent refers to above. 

Otherwise admit that hydrogen is for applications other than domestic heating and stop wasting our time and money!

 


4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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