Tariff model for ASHPs
I recently decided to look at the business case for batteries and this led me to developing a crude tarrif model which is possibly of more general use. In case its of any use to others I attach it.
I have modelled tariffs stand alone, with a 9.5kWh battery and a 19kWh battery, for which local prices (fitted) are currently 5K and 7K respectively
The meat of it is to allocate the % consumption for each load type to the various timed tarrifs. This is a bit of an informed guess in some instances so you should substitute your own numbers. Where I am modelling with a 19kWh battery it is much less of a guess, as such a battery is large enough to cover a whole day (except car charging) for almost all of the year.
Toi an extent the conclusions really depend on the assumptions you make about when you operate the high-draw items (which is adjustable in the spreadsheet). In all my modelling I assumed that no account is taken of the tarrif when deciding to operate equipment, with the exception of car charging where I make more generous assumptions. I did this because it is the 'lazy' option which I fear many, including me, will default to, and also because it paints batteries in a 'good' light (my initial motivation for the exercise was to prove, or otherwise, that batteries don't make financial sense, so by painting them in a 'good' light any conclusion that they don't make financial sense is relatively robust). Cosy also might have an un-modelled advantage in the shoulder season when perhaps your heat pump struggles not to cycle. In this case operating the heat pump only during the cheap periods will likely reduce the electricity cost without materially compromising efficiency (because the heat pump was destined to cycle anyway). Interestingly Cosy Mk2 (with the three low price periods) is now entering its first winter.
With any ToU tarrif, and a sufficiently capable heat pump controller, there is the opportunity to 'pre-load' the house, warming it up above the desired temperature before a high tarrif period kicks in. Thats exactly what homely and the like do. Cosy may be better suited to this than Go because the cheap periods are better distributed, but I didn't build this into my modelling. TBH I think Agile is even better suited to this behaviour than cosy because there is much more low price time even better distributed still. Although there is some uncertainty when the low price time will occur, in practice its pretty predictable. Of course Homely and the like have the advantage of looking ahead a day so they know what the future price and temperature is, and thus can be more intelligent about this optimisation than any timed controller can.
The percentages of each load class assigned to the different prices within any one tarrif are adjustable, so if anyone wants to make radically different assumptions to see how it changes the picture they can. Even if you dont intend to buy a battery its quite interesting to look at the 19kW battery column where I essentially assume all, or nearly all, the electricity is at the lowest price. The trick would be to achieve this, or something close, without the upfront cost of a battery. With Agile, intelligent control and a house with a reasonably high heat capacity I reckon that may be close to do-able for the heat pump which is the dominant load. Homely, Havenwise, Adia, PassivUK (the four I know of, there may be more) are, I think, targeting more or less exactly that. In time I imagine energy suppliers will offer remote heat pump control with some sort of guarantee on minimum and maximum house temperature, so they can load balance. The technology that Havenwise is developing is particularly well suited to this case, as it doesn't require any hardware, just an internet connection.
My conclusion (which apply for me only)
- Dont bother with a battery, it doesn't pay, or doesn't pay by much (I might change my mind with the 'don't bother' bit if there is solid evidence of environmental benefit).
- If I were to trust Ovo, the Ovo heat pump tarrif is the winner
- Otherwise get Agile or Intelligent Go or Cosy and just be faintly sensible about use during the peak charging periods, without busting a gut. definitely dont stick with fixed price
- Agile with a bit of intelligent manipulation of the heat pump to use the house as an energy score (as in what Homely, Havenwise, Adi and Passiv purport to do) looks like its well worth exploring and probably the best bet in the short to medium term
(There is also a plot of (UK) carbon intensity vs (Eastern England) Agile pricing, showing v poor correlation. I need to do this again with East of England carbon intensity which might show better correlation, so at the the current time its a case absence of evidence for correlation carbon intensity<->pricing, which is evidence of absence.)
Criticism (preferably constructive) welcome.
Oh boy...you have really kicked the hornets nest!
Not being able to receive a smart meter signal I have crunched the numbers, rather crudely compared to your effort, and had reached the same conclusion that for me the economic payback time was just too long for the expense of installing sufficient battery capacity to run a fairly large HP and house load. My conclusions seem to fly in the face of the number of battery installations that I see going on around me and made me doubt the probity of my thinking. Now, perhaps not.
@abernyte I would dearly love someone to show me I'm wrong. ToU tarrifs are a faff (which is why I made 'lazy' assumptions) and a battery would do away with the faff!
I stress that the conclusions apply to me only!
With only fixed price tarrif a battery might welll pay, but if you can get economy 7 still, which I believe may be possible and doesn't require a smart meter, then maybe still not.
We have a 9.5kWh battery which we got in 2022 together with a further 2kW of PV. The payback time was ~7 years then, which we consider completely acceptable. At today's rate it will be ~10 years. Since the warranty is 10years it will presumably last much longer.
The ASHP however has a payback time of 20years, which could easily be beyond its lifetime. But we’ve gone ahead anyway.
The battery has its own satisfaction of knowing you are using a larger proportion of your own generation. It is better for the environment in that fewer gas fired power stations need to be switched on for the evening peak period. This last point is complex and is considered in much more depth on the other thread (solar/battery) on here.
I suspect for anyone without an EV the OVO tariff is a clear winner and easy while it lasts, but for anyone with high other use then it’s not as clear. For us at present it’s Cosy but a similar calculation on whether to get another battery the financial result is no, one is enough, for us for now.
It comes down to the satisfaction of just using the lowest price, the ultimate gamification of power prices.
2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (new & still learning it)
Thanks for this its always good to have some real numbers.
In terms of judging payback I don't personally put ASHP and batteries in the same category. The environmental case for ASHPs is very clear to the extent it’s a no brainer, much less so for batteries. ASHPs must happen otherwise climate change is worse than it needs to be and thus no financial justification is required (although it helps of course).
As to the environmental credentials of batteries I remain unclear. The link you provided seems to compare ASHP + PV+ Battery with ASHP +PV + no battery, and shows a carbon benefit on one of the days, but I believe it is ignoring the carbon benefit of the (hypothetical) exported PV. In fact it goes on to say, below the comparison table, 'The apparent savings in carbon dioxide emissions associated with using a battery are illusory and in fact the battery is really an additional electrical item using power and causing further emissions.' Without hypothetical exported PV no carbon saving is shown
I think that the carbon benefit (or not) of batteries rests on whether carbon intensity correlates with price. It seems prima facie plausible that it does, but I have read that it doesn't and the plot I did (admittedly of UK carbon intensity vs East of England price) showed only a very weak correlation.
We desperately need authenticated facts on this matter so we can all make an informed decision in relation to the environmental case.
@jamespa Having dived in deep with everything other than an EV, I suppose I must have a bias towards ‘batteries is best’, but I had a number of reasons to want the independence a large battery offers during the winter and possible power cuts and being all-electric and not wishing to be cold and hungry. (All explained before, ad nauseam in my previous postings!)
I have been observing the ‘average off-peak’ prices of Agile via the very helpful agileprice.co.uk app since 1st. July and noticed that they have rarely ‘plunged’ for more than a few hours in a week and the website has mostly displayed the daily ‘average off-peak’ averaging 2 - 6 pence pkWh higher than the ‘no faff’ 8 cheapest hours per day of Cosy tariff. With sufficient battery capacity to power the ASHP during the other 16 hours each day, I am off-grid then. If you do have the battery capacity - then it may be worth considering. Regards, Mike
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
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