@JennyRoss i can only say that your being incredibly unlucky.  My local planning Department (East Ayrshire Council) simply went through 6.19 with me and said the were satisfied it was Permitted Development and I didn't need any further notification  I have a single pump which is situated within the 1 meter of my Gable end of the side of the house and its been fitted by a MCS approved installer.

I’m always intrigued by planning departments and statutory consultees (like EH) and the incredible inconsistencies in their decision making process. 

@duncan-mac thank you. We are in Fife. So far replies from planning assistants have been of the catch 22 variety. I am simply referred back to the eplanning portal each time. It doesn’t seem possible to speak directly to anyone in the council about this. The phone numbers lead me to a dead end each time.

The irony is that 3 years ago we were given planning permission for oil CH to be installed with a large external tank. We didn’t go ahead but it is frustrating that external aesthetics take priority over the carbon footprint. 

@jennyross, it is very frustrating - is there any way that you can fence/screen the ASHP off while giving it the breathing room it requires. And it's amazing that planning are particular on the aesthetics in this case, but they'll approve an intensive farming factory or industrial park in a rural location with no regard for aesthetics or the impact on the landscape. It's a definite head scratcher sometimes.

Please, please do not consider installing an ASHP if you live in any urban or village setting with neighbours close to you. We have recently had 5 new houses built next door, each with an ASHP, and the closest fan is a few metres from our boundary and approximately 8m from our back door. As we are in a quiet village, with very little ambient noise, the ASHP is a massive nuisance. It sounds like a loud fridge with a constant throbbing hum. We cannot hear it in the house with the windows shut, thank goodness, but with a window open at night, or when in the garden, the constant drone is infuriating.

If you value your relationship with your neighbours, please do not install one unless you really have the space to keep it well out of the way. We have contacted environmental health to register a noise complaint, so we shall see how that goes. When I talked to the installer about the surprising amount of noise, his reply was that ‘we would get used to it’! The builder installed it under permitted development, but clearly the regulations do not translate well into the real world. There is an interesting study comparing ASHP manufacture dB figures with real world values in Scotland, which is worth googling. The conclusion of that report is that ASHPs are likely to cause a noise nuisance even when they are 10s of metres away from neighbouring properties. 

The government is really pushing ASHPs. and it is going to cause no end of problems. We have only had to put up with it for a few weeks, and I am already on the verge of ripping it off the wall and setting fire to it. Goodness knows how noisy it is going to be over winter. I am dreading it.

If you live on a smallholding – great. If you have neighbours – no.

Simon

Thanks for your comments and advice Simon. Hmmmm. Not sure what to say. We are desperate for some alternative to a hugely expensive wet CH system run off electric boilers. 
I am hyper sensitive to noise and certainly would not want to bother my neighbours in this regard.
Can you tell me the make of the ASHPs which have been installed?

I've been looking at the following link which is the Quiet Mark assessment of different ASHPs and they have considered boilers too. I still don't really know what 61dB sounds like in reality..... 

https://www.quietmark.com/news/quiet-boilers-and-heat-pumps-best-buys-for-peaceful-living

Jenny. It’s quite difficult to measure. I have a decibel measurement app on my phone. 
3m in front of the Daikin fan, I measured about 55dB. 3m to the side it is 45dB. In my sitting room I measured 30dB

When I measured the flue of a neighbours new oil boiler, it was 55dB

@julianc thank you. We are considering the Grant Aerona 32 17kW which has a technical spec of 61 DB and has been awarded the Quiet Mark even at that level.

Posted by: @jennyross

Thanks for your comments and advice Simon. Hmmmm. Not sure what to say. We are desperate for some alternative to a hugely expensive wet CH system run off electric boilers. 
I am hyper sensitive to noise and certainly would not want to bother my neighbours in this regard.
Can you tell me the make of the ASHPs which have been installed?

I am certainly no expert, and I am definitely not against heat pumps in principle, but I feel that the green lobby is glossing over the pitfalls in the drive to ‘encourage’ us away from our gas and oil boilers. They are just not suitable if you have near neighbours.

The pumps that are blighting our lives are Samsung AE12RXYDEG. What I have learned is that, in the UK at least, the MCS calculations are set so that having a fence between you and the neighbours will almost guarantee that you can fit a pump under permitted development, as on paper it significantly reduces the dB. In reality, not so much.

To be fair, I think the critical issue is the level of ambient noise. We live somewhere very quiet, so it is a big issue for us. For someone living in a city, I imagine that you might not even notice the noise. 

I wouldn’t get hung up on the quoted dB figures. It is more the quality of the noise and the frequency that is the problem. Imagine a neighbour having a small moped ticking over on their drive, so you can just hear a faint put-put-put in the background. Then imagine that running 24 hours a day, every day, and you can see how it might be an issue over time.

If anyone is thinking of fitting an ASHP, then I would suggest trying to find someone locally who has one fitted, and ask if you can listen to it at a quiet time of day.

i would also  thoroughly recommend reading the government report ‘Acoustic Noise measurements of air source heat pumps’ (via Google). This will show you that in the real world heat pumps tend to be far noisier than their quoted noise rating.

Simon

Nice one Jen

Ask your installer why they pick the Grant?

Get other quotes from different installers who recommend different products. Test why

17kW is a big machine. I thought mine was an 18kW. It’s a 12 for a 204m2 property  is it a single fan vs double fan?

What distance is the 61dB measured at? (My old chemistry professor would correct your capital DB 😊)

You have to be aware of sound pressure vs sound volume.  I’m quite technical and I’m not sure what this means in practice - I think it’s in front of the fan compared to the sides.  This will impact location.

So my conclusion is the Grant achieves Quite Mark, but 61dB is 50% louder than the in front measurement of my installed Daikin.  And 150% louder than the 3m side measurement.

So I’m not sure Quiet Mark means much.  Go test others. Perhaps other ASHP owners here could test their instals.  My free installed dB meter on my iPhone 11 is called Sound Meter