@majordennisbloodnok are you saying that to use Melpump, one also has to have the gadget from @f1p ?

I am soon passing control of my ASHP to Havenwise @hcas but would like the extra data (only) that Melpump appear to provide.

Posted by: @morgan

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@majordennisbloodnok are you saying that to use Melpump, one also has to have the gadget from @f1p ?

I am soon passing control of my ASHP to Havenwise @hcas but would like the extra data (only) that Melpump appear to provide.

No, you can use either an existing MELCloud Adapter if you have one or a dedicated adatper.
The advantage of the adapter is there is more & high resolution data (e.g. about defrosts) and controls available, which MELCloud does not have

@majordennisbloodnok Yes, a good explanation.

My question, (obviously poorly put) was: Does the use of MelPump in any way interfere with communication between the Ecodan FT5/6 and the MelCloud app?

You have explained in the most comprehensive way that the answer is NO and that the two apps , MelCloud and MelPump can work in parallel.

I tend to agree about the demerits of MelCloud, but I only use it for information rather than commands and I have been reasonably happy to depend on parameters set on the FTC6. My experience is that MelCloud is much more functionally useful with Mitsu air conditioners.

It will be most interesting to hear from contributors with regard to their experience using MelPump and to compare it with the apparently favourable ratings given to Havenwise on this forum. 

Posted by: @morgan

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@majordennisbloodnok are you saying that to use Melpump, one also has to have the gadget from @f1p ?

I am soon passing control of my ASHP to Havenwise @hcas but would like the extra data (only) that Melpump appear to provide.

I'm now into slightly less certain territory for me, but my understanding is as follows.

• The Melpump app was originally intended as an alternative for using the Melclound app since the latter has always been workmanlike at best. As a result, Melpump was simply an app that communicated with Mitsi's cloud services using the same API that the Melcloud app does. All that was (and, I believe, still is) necessary was to have the heat pump talking to Mitsi's web servers via the Mitsi wifi adapter.
• When Mitsi started the process of replacing Melcloud with Melcloud Home, it became clear that the old Melcloud API was also steadily going to be taken out of commission, so whilst that doesn't affect an individual whose heat pump is still controlled using Melcloud, it is a problem for the Melpump guys since it raises the spectre of an app with no-one to talk to. As a result, it appears the Melpump guys set up their own cloud. In that case, you can get the little box of tricks @f1p designed and that allows your heat pump to send and receive data with Melpump's cloud. The daisy-chaining of @f1p's gadget and Mitsi's wifi adapter means this approach does not stop Melcloud from working.
• Additionally, @f1p's adapter allows for a second MQTT server to be specified, meaning it doesn't have to talk to the Melpump cloud; you can get it to talk to a server you've set up on your own network (e.g. an MQTT broker running as an addon within Home Assistant), you can get it to talk to Melpump or you can do both.

The key extra point here is that all the performance data you want to see comes from the Ecodan, so there's loads of info being sent to Mitsi's servers. However, Mitsi are a little bit more cagey about making all that data available again for the apps via their API. As a result, the Melcloud app's reporting isn't brilliant and the Melpump app - if operating on top of Mitsi's API - is limited in the data it can provide for you. However, @f1p's adapter sends just as broad a range of data to Melpump's cloud (or Home Assistant, if you set it up that way) as the Mitsi wifi adapter sends to Melcloud, so if you choose to use Melpump in combination with @f1p's adapter and the Melpump cloud, you get access to more data than if you used Melpump in combination with Mitsi's cloud.

The final part, though, is that if you choose to use a local MQTT server you do have to get the gadget but you don't have to use the Melpump app or interact with Melpump the company in any way. If you're happy getting the data via Home Assistant, I suspect you wouldn't use Melpump at all but you would need the gadget. If you like the way the Melpump app crunches and displays that same data, EUR 2.5 per month is not a huge outlay but you would still need that gadget. If you're happy with Melpump's better reporting of the same limited data Melcloud can see (and Havenwise can see), you don't need the gadget but have to bear in mind we don't know how long Mitsi are going to keep supporting Melcloud in its current form.

N.B. Although Havenwise currently controls Mitsi devices through the Melcloud API, it also controls other brands through other APIs. If the Melcloud API gets retired, it does mean that Havenwise wouldn't be able to use it any more but it doesn't mean they couldn't switch to a different Mitsi API instead. None of what I've written is intended to suggest Havenwise are standing still.

@morgan I am also on the cusp of trying Havenwise, so would be interested if you could define what data is  available from MelPump that is not given by Havenwise?

@davidalgarve https://melpump.com/

@majordennisbloodnok  I'm now completely lost. Geek speak simply doesn't register with me. I'm probably the least tech-competent person that you will ever engage with.  Given that, I think I will just hand over to Havenwise and be done with it.  Thank you very much for trying though 😆 

@davidalgarve 

From the information page, with the adapter you can get:

Additional Data:
Flow rate monitoring (e.g. track filter status and pump operation),
Total run hours
Total Compressor starts
Live Estimated input power & output power = Live CoP
Fan speeds
Condensing Temperature
Linear Expansion Valve A (heating) position

Advanced Control:
Enable/disable heating and cooling for zones, enable/disable hot water heating, change hot water heating mode (normal/eco), enable/disable holiday mode, enable instant hot water heating in normal mode without boost, read service codes remotely.

More Accurate Data:
Updates every 30 seconds, recording all booster heater and defrost actions.

Posted by: @morgan

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@davidalgarve https://melpump.com/

@majordennisbloodnok  I'm now completely lost. Geek speak simply doesn't register with me. I'm probably the least tech-competent person that you will ever engage with.  Given that, I think I will just hand over to Havenwise and be done with it.  Thank you very much for trying though 😆 

This is probably the right solution for you,

What could happen is Havenwise turns around to you and says it's no longer possible for us to control your heat pump because Mitsi no longer permits us, no longer provides the required parameters or it's uneconomical for us to do so.
At the moment we don't know what Mitsibushi's next move will be, but we do know that mainland Europe is ahead in this.

I've got melpump with the wifi adaptor plugged into the CN105. Its brilliant and helped so much how my heat pump is running.  

Posted by: @morgan

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@majordennisbloodnok  I'm now completely lost. Geek speak simply doesn't register with me. I'm probably the least tech-competent person that you will ever engage with.  Given that, I think I will just hand over to Havenwise and be done with it.  Thank you very much for trying though 😆 

No problem, @morgan.

Since you're already connected to Melcloud, handing over the control reins to Havenwise will cost you nothing except the subscription. You'll still have access to the data you already did. If, at a later stage, you decide you want to start collecting more data than Melcloud allows you to see, you can choose to get @f1p's little gizmo and attach it as instructed. That'll still allow Havenwise to continue uninterrupted. That'll then mean the extra subscription to Melpump as well (since, given your professed aversion to tech, I'm ruling out anything to do with Home Assistant), and you can have your Havenwise cake and eat it with a full garnish of Melpump-collected data.

@f1p Re:

"What could happen is Havenwise turns around to you and says it's no longer possible for us to control your heat pump because Mitsi no longer permits us, no longer provides the required parameters or it's uneconomical for us to do so"

I think we should give Henri Casteleyn from Havenwise the chance to respond. I don't get the impression that he is oblivious to future developments, but it will be interesting to see how this might be addressed if and when Mitsu axe MelCloud

Posted by: @f1p

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What could happen is Havenwise turns around to you and says it's no longer possible for us to control your heat pump because Mitsi no longer permits us, no longer provides the required parameters or it's uneconomical for us to do so.
At the moment we don't know what Mitsibushi's next move will be, but we do know that mainland Europe is ahead in this.

Rather than stirring up potential concern, it might be better at this stage for @hcas to comment.

As I said in an earlier post, Melpump will not be the only company aware of the impending challenges of Mitsi's move to a newer way of doing things, so Havenwise may well have a strategy already in place or being formulated. Of course, @hcas might not be able to share it at the moment but I'm sure he'll have some view somehow.