Excellent service. But if set to straight WC you may not have an issue to fix? Or was the issue actually caused by the Heat haven not resetting stuff after it had intervened running other strategies?

Sorry but utterly unconvinced anything connected to the internet for a heating system is the way to go. Internet down for any reason - what happens? Do you actually want that to happen?

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Excellent service. But if set to straight WC you may not have an issue to fix?

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@johnmo, the HP may well already be set up for straight WC with Havenwise just tweaking around that. We don't know since we haven't asked the question and @broadsman hasn't said. Either way, if @broadsman needed a boost then leaving it on WC isn't going to cut it any more than the heat pump's failure to talk back to the cloud.

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Or was the issue actually caused by the Heat haven not resetting stuff after it had intervened running other strategies?

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Do you have anything to base that suggestion or is it pure conjecture? If it's the former then sharing your grounds would allow us to examine them, possibly to everyone's benefit. If it's the latter then it would be more helpful to clarify it's just a gut feel or alternatively simply not mention it.

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Sorry but utterly unconvinced anything connected to the internet for a heating system is the way to go. Internet down for any reason - what happens? Do you actually want that to happen?

Given the way Havenwise works (interacting with Samsung's API exactly the same way Samsung's own app does), if the Internet connection goes down then the heat pump continues exactly as it did when it last spoke home. The risks are exactly the same as if @broadsman were to change settings manually via their smart phone.

Does anyone want that to happen? No, of course not.

What's the plan B? Use the in-house controller.

Will the home owner lose the ability to heat their home? No.

To be clear, given the lack of resilience in most domestic Internet connections I would most certainly not be comfortable with any important home management system (heating, power, security etc.) that is reliant on the Internet for its control. However, few such systems are (Tesla PV systems being a notable exception); most are instead controllable locally and have cloud offerings as a parallel alternative. Anything set up like that is only at risk of minor increased inconvenience if Internet connection issues happen, very much akin to the hassle of having to get up and go to the television to change channel if your remote's battery fails. What Havenwise seem to have done is polish their customer service to the extent they're telling the customer their remote's battery is dead even before the customer realises.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Do you have anything to base that suggestion or is it pure conjecture?

The circulation pump has a few ways of operating.

Setting 0:

Uses a fixed LWT (Low Water Temperature) setpoint, ignoring any roomstat signal.

Setting 1:

The compressor operates based on WL, but doesn't shut off until the roomstat is satisfied. LWT will continue to rise if the roomstat isn't met, even at minimum compressor speed.

Settings 2-4:

The controller uses either WL or roomstat to start/stop the compressor, whichever happens first. The difference lies in the circulating pump operation when WL setpoint is reached: off (2), on (3), or cycling (4).

If heatwise has control of operation (which it does) it has to manipulate stuff to get what it needs out of the heat pump. Why would it not? Especially if on a time of use tariff it will utilise overheating as a set forward mechanism, to utilise cheap energy. Some changes are then needed to the way the circulation pump operates. Hence the reason for raising it

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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if the Internet connection goes down then the heat pump continues exactly as it did when it last spoke home.

So if on boost mode, or setback it stays like that until homeowners realise or come home to a hot or cold house.  Then the home owner needs to scratch their heads to figure out what to do? Not ideal. The ideal user isn't someone that likes to understand how stuff works, reads user manuals for fun. It's someone that fits and hopefully forgets, leaves it to get on with it.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Havenwise seem to have done is polish their customer service

Not doubting that. Customer service is a lot. Not many companies give it at all

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Do you have anything to base that suggestion or is it pure conjecture?

 

 

The circulation pump has a few ways of operating.

Setting 0:

Uses a fixed LWT (Low Water Temperature) setpoint, ignoring any roomstat signal.

Setting 1:

The compressor operates based on WL, but doesn't shut off until the roomstat is satisfied. LWT will continue to rise if the roomstat isn't met, even at minimum compressor speed.

Settings 2-4:

The controller uses either WL or roomstat to start/stop the compressor, whichever happens first. The difference lies in the circulating pump operation when WL setpoint is reached: off (2), on (3), or cycling (4).

If heatwise has control of operation (which it does) it has to manipulate stuff to get what it needs out of the heat pump. Why would it not? Especially if on a time of use tariff it will utilise overheating as a set forward mechanism, to utilise cheap energy. Some changes are then needed to the way the circulation pump operates. Hence the reason for raising it

...

But @broadsman's issue was that the heat pump had lost the ability to talk home and so for Havenwise (or Samsung, for that matter) to control it. None of what you've outlined would in any way affect the heat pump's ability to talk to the Internet. Havenwise doesn't have control of operation; it has access to use Samsung's control of operation the same as the homeowner has with a smartphone app. If using the app allows a homeowner to accidentally snafu the heat pump's ability to talk to t'interweb that's a VERY poor bit of design.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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if the Internet connection goes down then the heat pump continues exactly as it did when it last spoke home.

 

 

So if on boost mode, or setback it stays like that until homeowners realise or come home to a hot or cold house.  Then the home owner needs to scratch their heads to figure out what to do? Not ideal. The ideal user isn't someone that likes to understand how stuff works, reads user manuals for fun. It's someone that fits and hopefully forgets, leaves it to get on with it.

...

Quite. Not ideal hence my saying earlier

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Does anyone want that to happen? No, of course not.

However, as I also pointed out earlier, the homeowner still has recourse to the control unit on the wall; Internet connectivity is not mandatory. Of course, if the homeowner makes a change whilst away from home that's acknowledged to be a greater risk.

Incidentally, how often does your Internet connection drop for a significant time? In the last 5 years I've experienced about 5-6 power cuts (and therefore inevitable connection issues) but zero connectivity problems otherwise. Someone's history with an Internet provider will inevitably feed into the choice about how risky an Internet-enabled heat pump control strategy is and I wouldn't want my (positive) experiences to dictate whether someone else's choice was "right" or "wrong". There's no one-size-fits-all here.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Havenwise doesn't have control of operation; it has access to use Samsung's control of operation the same as the homeowner has with a smartphone app.

You just said it doesn't have control and then clarified it does. It can change and amend settings - otherwise it's just a monitor.

Last night, internet off for 3 hrs. Times before that 30 April, 1 March, 28 Feb, so most months, normally at night for a few hours. I know it's the internet as the battery is hard wired to internet not WiFi.

Even getting annoyed at the wonder watt charge control, which in internet based. But have now set so it has two attempts of charging one at 1.30am to 4.00am and again at 5.00 to 07.30am. To hopefully miss outages.

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Havenwise doesn't have control of operation; it has access to use Samsung's control of operation the same as the homeowner has with a smartphone app.

You just said it doesn't have control and then clarified it does. It can change and amend settings - otherwise it's just a monitor.

Last night, internet off for 3 hrs. Times before that 30 April, 1 March, 28 Feb, so most months, normally at night for a few hours. I know it's the internet as the battery is hard wired to internet not WiFi.

Even getting annoyed at the wonder watt charge control, which in internet based. But have now set so it has two attempts of charging one at 1.30am to 4.00am and again at 5.00 to 07.30am. To hopefully miss outages.

Are those outages typical for your area of the country or do you have specific issues with your home?

Posted by: @Anonymous

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You just said it doesn't have control and then clarified it does. It can change and amend settings - otherwise it's just a monitor.

No. It doesn't have control; it has (shared) access to use the control. A fine distinction but important since it, like a homeowner, can only make changes the control system allows. Not all settings are exposed to the app or, indeed, Havenwise. It's the same as buying from Amazon; I don't control Amazon; I merely use its interface to influence its operation.

This is important since you were trying to suggest Havenwise might have changed a setting that stopped the heat pump from communicating with the Internet. Unless Samsung's developers exposed some very risky stuff that's just not possible.

Posted by: @jeff

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Posted by: @Anonymous

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Havenwise doesn't have control of operation; it has access to use Samsung's control of operation the same as the homeowner has with a smartphone app.

You just said it doesn't have control and then clarified it does. It can change and amend settings - otherwise it's just a monitor.

Last night, internet off for 3 hrs. Times before that 30 April, 1 March, 28 Feb, so most months, normally at night for a few hours. I know it's the internet as the battery is hard wired to internet not WiFi.

Even getting annoyed at the wonder watt charge control, which in internet based. But have now set so it has two attempts of charging one at 1.30am to 4.00am and again at 5.00 to 07.30am. To hopefully miss outages.

Are those outages typical for your area of the country or do you have specific issues with your home?

A bit of both, @jeff. I live in a particularly rural bit so we're more susceptible than many to falling branches in storms. However, there has recently been work rerouting a particularly important cable somewhere else that should mean it's more stable. Even so the outages are far less frequent than when we first moved here.

That's for the relatively small area of the country we're in but I'm not sure how it fares against the wider region or even whole county.

As for t'interweb, we've got fibre to the premises and that's buried so that's largely immune to storms and the like. Been rock solid since installation.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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This is important since you were trying to suggest Havenwise might have changed a setting that stopped the heat pump from communicating with the Internet.

No I am not

I am and was only speaking about the change in operation of the circulation pump. If Havenwise made a change to 2093 option. As you say if that option is available via the internet, it could have been moved from set point to another and not back again.  If the home owner had the function previously to boost room temp, either Havenwise made the change or the owner. I do not know which would be correct - or the boost function never worked prior to to having Havenwise?

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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No. It doesn't have control; it has (shared) access to use the control. A fine distinction but important since it, like a homeowner, can only make changes the control system allows. Not all settings are exposed to the app or, indeed, Havenwise. It's the same as buying from Amazon; I don't control Amazon; I merely use its interface to influence its operation.

Sorry that just playing with words, the home owner has no control either then, they is just sharing access with the controller as well - sorry that is just bull.  If you can make a change to a running parameter you have control and influence of how the heat pump operates. If Havenheat does not have control how does it save you money by making changes to how it operates.

@hcas, if you have a moment, could you please clarify some of the points that have been made above pertaining to Havenwise?

@johnmo I appreciate the input and the experience you’ve gathered from your own system, but I’d like to bring things back into focus here.

This thread was originally about broadsman sharing a very positive and prompt support experience from Havenwise (who I think are an excellent company) something we don’t hear often enough in this sector. While healthy scepticism around internet-connected devices is fair game, let’s not dismiss helpful tech or speculate on issues without evidence. There’s a difference between offering perspective and casting doubt in a way that risks derailing useful threads for others.

To clarify for anyone else reading: Havenwise, like many smart systems, interacts with the heat pump via an API, just like the manufacturer’s own app. If the internet goes down, the heat pump continues as it was. The homeowner can still adjust things locally. This is not some fragile “cloud only” dependency.

I’m all for critical thinking and rigorous debate, but let’s stay grounded and on topic, and not assume that a system that works differently to our own must be inferior or problematic. And please, let’s avoid sniping. There's no place for it on these forums. This is not Facebook.

Let’s keep this forum open, helpful and welcoming. Everyone benefits when we do.