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National Grid consultation on upgrading etc

MisterB · 2023-11-14T08:47:32Z

Has anyone taken part in the workshops that National Grid have been holding regarding upgrading their network to allow larger systems to feed back more power to the grid. has anyone been restricted on how much they can feed back to the grid who would have wanted to or have the capacity to feed back more. It seems a shame that there may be a large amount of energy simply going to 'waste' from domestic installations and that most domestic installations were (and still are??) capped at around 3.5kw

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ChickenBig

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27/11/2023 2:38 pm

Posted by: @transparent

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Since the Energy Bill hasn't yet passed through Parliament, there is bound to be a lot of uncertainty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/energy-security-bill -> https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2022/july-2022/lords-considers-energy-bill/ -> https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3311 given royal assent on 26 October 2023. Part 5 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/52/part/5/enacted is about the ISOP.

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Transparent

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27/11/2023 3:21 pm

mea culpa.

I have some homework to catch up on.

Save energy... recycle electrons!

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Transparent

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20/01/2024 4:00 pm

This post is copied across from the Welcome topic because it's more relevant here.

Posted by: @ianmk13

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Are you suggesting to National Grid that they should be targeting upgrading their local distribution infrastructure (at the expense of their National infrastructure, presumably). It is local connections that seem to be the problem both for generators and consumers.

This depends on where you are in the country.

As we move towards an energy supply system which has thousands of generation sites spread across the regions, I believe that the grid topology should reflect this.

The National Grid Transmission network runs at 400kV (and a few sections at 275kV) but was designed around a few major power plants which existed in the 1930s. It's rather like a tree which picks up nutrients from relatively few main roots (routes!) and transports them to the leaves via a trunk.

Now in 2024 we have generation from vastly more sites, most of which are not far from the leaves.

The historical approach by National Grid Electricity Transmission (NGET) to increase capacity has been to build a thicker trunk.
I contend that strategy is

too expensive (more than HS2)
ineffective

If we consider the future grid as an organic structure, then its topology should develop in similar fashion to a biological model.

Generation and Demand sites are interlinked by a number of different pathways.

That organic grid is not only much cheaper, but also far more resilient to failure and malicious attack.

This post was modified 2 years ago 3 times by Transparent

Save energy... recycle electrons!

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Transparent

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20/01/2024 4:06 pm

Neither National Grid Electricity Transmission (NGET) nor the regional DNOs are permitted to own or control any form of storage or generation.

Storing electricity lowers the need for greater grid capacity.
Less power must be carried during times of peak demand because it's already being held where it's needed.

So if we want to avoid paying higher bills for massive grid upgrades, then NGET need to see us implementing storage.

Save energy... recycle electrons!

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IanMK13

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21/01/2024 12:50 pm

@transparent So a distributed multi-path arrangement similar to communications networks? This would be sensible from a robustness (and security!) standpoint, too.

For domestic customers, I imagine the problem is co-ordinating or managing supply and demand at the local, neighbourhood level. Some thought has been given to this in the past and I believe that hooks are included in smart meter protocols to facilitate load management. There could be problems making use of these given a widespread public belief that they could be used to remotely terminate supplies.

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ChickenBig

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11/02/2024 12:08 pm

Posted by: @transparent

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NGET need to see us implementing storage.

Vehicle-to-grid or vehicle-to-load as mandatory for new EVs and chargers? 🙂 At the very least the more wealthy (those with EVs and their own charging point) should have to lead the storage rollout!

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Transparent

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11/02/2024 2:15 pm

Yes @chickenbig - Vehicle to Grid (or Vehicle to Home) is the sort of 'consumer driven' approach which needs to be evident.

But let's look at the current situation:

Only EVs with CHAdeMO connectors, like the Nissan Leaf, can readily be used with V2G chargers.
The more common CSS connector needs a new design specification to be able to export energy from the car.
The V2G Trial run by OVO/Kaluza successfully implemented about 440 V2G sites before the money ran out.
The final report on that Sciurus Trial by Cenex was brief and positive, but took none of the energy losses into account.
EVs use LithiumMNC batteries, which suffer greater degradation per charge-cycle than do batteries with other lithium chemistries

It's a lot cheaper to build static storage batteries for incorporation into the home.
The Achilles heel is the high profit margins and high costs of installation for domestic storage.

Save energy... recycle electrons!

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