I don't really know how to respond.  My view is that it has, throughout my lifetime, been very difficult to find quality, reliable tradesmen, let's say 40 years of being in the position of seeking them.

Has it got worse?  I honestly don't know once I apply a correction for rose tinted spectacles/age related impatience.

Fir certain it's bad though, is it worse? I honestly cat say.

By way of specific example, when we moved into our current house 25 years ago I sought someone to redo an ensuite shower room.  I failed to find anyone who would do it at a price which was anything other than taking the mick, and from what I can recall most of the tradesmen I approached just weret interested.  In the end I did the job myself, which really I did not want to do.  Recently we have had a no show (without communication) on tree work.  That said our recent ashp installi went well and some fence work ditto. We were badly scammed about 6 years ago for some flat roof work.  In between there have been some successes, some failures and a lot of, often reluctant, DIY because that's been the only reliable way to get anything done to a good standard.

From my experience, yes, it is harder maybe since traders get jobs via platforms and feedback is more faceless.

It also depends where you live. And the more inexperienced homeowners are, the worse tradespeople are...

The more experience we have, the longer we spend to decide who we accept for work. Even if it should not be required I now tend to ping them the previous day so we do not have too many surprises. 

We recently had new fiber internet service put in. We could see that even large companies struggle to get good quality people. The first ones left without explanation so we were extra careful with the next... 

I am coming towards the end of a new house build (why I'm only on here when I need help) so I've had a lot of different trades people around over the last 2 years and most have been very good. Some have been hard to get on site when I need them as most good people are always busy but I have had very little issue from tradespeople working on the build. I am very hands on as I've worked as a joiner and furniture maker for over 30 years and decided to take a break from the day job and work on site so I can keep on top of things and save a lot more than I can earn working.

I found electricians and plumbers very busy and are harder to get on site but that is probaly because I only need them for a few days at a time and if another trade is late I have to push them back or not book a fixed time in the first place. This makes it harder to fit my project in around their other work, but that is the usual case with smaller jobs. The people who have been here for long periods, most of the building trades, once they are on site were easy to keep working here until the job was done.  When they move on it is harder to get them back to finish off even with very good builders who take a lot of pride in their work and aren't only here for the money. I have found older people are more flexible, I guess they don't need to work every day to pay the bills so much, but they are more fixed in their ways and just do what they do which isn't always helpful. Those who aren't great I don't ask back, but I've not really had to deal with that.

Being on site as part of the team I have had and heard a lot of conversations and I think even good people struggle to balance work loads, deal with over runs and problems that arise. They might be trying to keep regular customers happy because it brings in the main income but that customer expects work to be turn round quickly especially if there are emergencies.  I found a few people who don't fully book too far in advance to allow for this but most tradespeople are trying to fill their working week a reasonable distance in advance as they want a regular income. Others do a lot of bigger jobs then try to fit other things around that.

Small jobs, the kind of things that take a few days or less and are expected to happen on a certain day aren't so easy to fit in for some tradespeople especially if they spend a reasonable amount of time working on larger jobs or for a few regular customers. Timings are often moving around as so many things affect how long a job takes. I haven't used people who do mostly smaller jobs direct for homeowners so my experience may not be in quite the same area but I have experienced a lot of very good tradepeople but they don't always turn up when they initailly plan to and most jobs seem to take longer than expected.

As an example of different types of people, I've had one plasterer who tries very hard to stick to times he had agreed and not ring a few days in advance to move the date, especially when it was a few days work in someones house. The other plasterer was more fluid and although he would make contact if he wanted to rearrange a time he didn't think it an issue to move days around at short notice.  But, most of the time I would choose the second one as the finish was better, he takes a lot of pride is his work and he's going to charge a fair rate.  The first one was much more expensive when quoting for jobs direct with householders but he would turn up when he said and get the job done quickly, although it may not be as well finished as it could be.

I also have a builder finishing off the driveway and paths around the house but I don't think he really needs to work many days any more. He is very good at what he does but he turns up when it suits him, doesn't do wet days so it is taking a long while to get things finished.  I could move on and find someone else but we are nearly there and the path to the front door should be finished before the family head over for Christmas!

@editor In 1986, we had a need for the house to be rewired (some was still the original 1930’s components) and as father in law had recently had his house rewired, he recommended (coerced would be nearer the truth!) that his electrician should do the work for us. We booked the electrician and this was when things declined; I’ll save you the details other than to say that he only seemed to want to work the odd evening for a couple of hours and the work was taking months. His haphazard approach was such that at one point, he even ripped out some of his own new wiring! Since the FIL’s ‘recommendation’, the electrician’s marriage had fallen apart and so had his work.😟 

The big change as I see it is that recent* ‘no shows has been ‘empowered’ by the ability of the hapless tradesperson to so easily ‘shift’ their next appearance just by tapping a few keys on a mobile phone to send a text message disengaging them from their contracted agreement, press send on the phone and walk away without a further thought.

This may sound harsh; I realise it does not apply to all and that perhaps I am using too wide a tarbrush! Like you Mars, we select our tradesmen, we are polite, friendly, helpful, honest with them and pay well and promptly (as we have discussed in private correspondence before now). A good worker should be respected and treasured! Regards, Toodles.

* Recent, ie., the last 15 years or so.

Posted by: @editor

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And it’s led me to a bigger question. Is this just us? Or has there been a real decline in tradesmanship and professionalism?

My own experience has always been that 'bringing in the trades' is a lottery, but I do also think it has got worse, particularly with apparent engagement followed by no show. My last experience was in the summer, when a gardener I had taken on finally announced after other excuses that his equipment couldn't take the heat. I was tempted to say he was working in the wrong kitchen.

These people are a real nuisance. It might take weeks to shortlist and then select a trade, and finally book them in, only to have a sting of cancellations until the inevitable walk-away. In the case of the gardener, the whole process took over a month, nearer six weeks. A lot of wasted effort on my part, only to get back to square one, weeks after I started. My biggest gripe is why can't these people say no at the beginning? it would save a lot of time, not just for me, but also for them. 

Over the last 3 years I've done a huge house renovation.  I could tell so many stories about it but I'm not sure you would believe me.  Sounds dramatic, but it’s actually changed me slightly as a person. I've lost faith and trust in people, certainty most trades.  But in fairness, there were some that were great and honest..... but  others..... wow.... 

Its also made me doubt the country as a whole. If the politicians really want to "build a million new home"  "install 600,000 heat pumps a year". We've not got the population to do this competently.  

Posted by: @davidnolan22

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Its also made me doubt the country as a whole. If the politicians really want to "build a million new home"  "install 600,000 heat pumps a year". We've not got the population to do this competently.  

Sadly that is true.  There are various reasons of course amongst which I would include:

• We, the public, don't really respect manual work of any kind (other than surgery), and thus its not viewed as a worthy career.  So people who have the potential to be skilled tradesmen are tempted to look elsewhere
• We have little meaningful technical/vocational education and praise academic achievement over artisanal achievement
• We left the EU, a ready source of at least a reasonable amount of skilled labour
• The trades themselves have too little CPD
• The cult of celebrity
• A relatively low unemployment rate coupled with the above

Much of this (with the exception of leaving the EU) has been going on for decades under successive governments.  Unfortunately its at least in part cultural.  Valuing manual trades is not particularly compatible with our delusions of empire!

Purely subjectively, I think the proportion of cowboys to professionals has always remained about the same. However, as @batpred alluded to, it feels as if the cynicism of “get away with the minimum acceptable” has increased.

I also think we as a society haven’t helped ourselves. I often hear of people recognising one tradesperson may be offering a good service for a fair price but still go with a cheaper quote and keep fingers crossed on what quality they end up with. That’s not an excuse for cowboys; just an observation.

@majordennisbloodnok ‘You get what you pay for’ has some truth; usually (all else being equal) the higher price goes with the higher quality work. Then there’s the possibility that we are looking through rose tinted spectacles when comparing work carried out years ago and now. Apparently, there was a van belonging to some contractors that bore the message “You’ve tried the Cowboys - now try the Indians” Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok ‘You get what you pay for’ has some truth; usually (all else being equal) the higher price goes with the higher quality work.

…

Sadly, this is an area that has suffered from the aforementioned cynicism. I now see plenty of examples of decisions to charge premium prices to appear like a quality outfit without a corresponding inclination to offer a premium service. All too often now one can pay top dollar for shoddy work.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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I now see plenty of examples of decisions to charge premium prices to appear like a quality outfit without a corresponding inclination to offer a premium service.

Couldn't agree more. There is no automatic correlation between price and quality. Anyone who thinks there is will soon find that they have been taken for a fool, and parted from their money.