Seems very much like Nero fiddling while Rome was burning.

Or at least a separate thread.

I do like word geekery because language is becoming so incredibly diluted, and at least we’re not debating or arguing about emojis. This new topic is made so it doesn’t distract from heat pump conversations, so Derek et al. can tune out.

@djh I appreciate the historical context you've provided, but there are a few points that need clarification and rebuttal. 

While it’s true that the word "program" has Latin and Greek roots and was influenced by French spelling during Victorian times, language evolution is natural and context-specific. The preference for "programme" in British English is part of this evolution, reflecting broader linguistic trends beyond just computing terminology.

Regarding the 1953 NPL conference and Prof Hartree's recommendation, it’s essential to remember that language usage isn't dictated by a single event or individual. While Hartree advocated for "program," this was not a universally adopted mandate, even among the prominent figures present. For instance, Alan Turing himself, whose contributions to computing are unparalleled, used "programme" in various contexts, as has been previously pointed out.

Also, the argument presented by Hartree, and subsequently by Booth & Booth, doesn't negate the widespread usage of "programme" in British English before and after 1953. The choice of terminology in computing was still evolving, and "programme" was, and remains, widely accepted in the UK. Christopher Strachey, who is mentioned as a proponent of "program," also used "programme" in his works, reflecting the fluidity of language preference among computing pioneers. 

The claim that "programme" is a reintroduction through French is not entirely a negative. Many English words have French origins or influences, and this blend enriches the language rather than diminishes it. The preference for "programme" in British English aligns with this tradition, preserving the nuance and historical context of the language.

While I respect the historical perspective you've shared, for me, the choice of "programme" in British English is rooted in tradition, historical usage and practical clarity. Language is dynamic, and the usage of "programme" honours the legacy of British computing pioneers and the linguistic heritage of the UK. The force of history includes diverse influences and evolutions, and "programme" remains a valid and respected choice in British English.

@editor I agree wholeheartedly Mars, and may I confess to shouting at BBC Radio Four *programmes* for their shockingly poor use of English as she should be spokened? For years, I have suffered paroxysms of discomfort over ‘secetry’, ‘libary’ or ‘libry’ and also ‘Febuary’ plus other similar murderous sins but now find even the normally well behaved mature announcers using very poor pronunciation and grammar. I feel that I ought to consider moving to Tunbridge Wells! Harrumph, Toodles.

@toodles

You are indeed correct Toodles, there are now so many people who don't speak 'proper' English 'like wot I do'. 😋 

Posted by: @derek-m

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...'like wot I do'.  

Shouldn't that be 'like wot I duz'? Pah, some people.... 🙄 

Posted by: @editor

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...

Language is dynamic

...

Never a truer word, @editor.

Given the name for our language is derived from our name for ourselves, there is an admittedly dubious argument to make that we "invented" the language. However one of the main strengths of English as a global language is that it isn't "ours" any more; it isn't anyone's, in fact. British English, American English, US English, Australian English, New Zealand English and mid-Atlantic English (offshore English?) amongst others all feed into a common pot. If a new term is seen as necessary, it becomes incorporated simply by being used. If another term or word isn't used, it becomes obsolete. It's one of the few times in life where multiple wrongs do indeed make a right.

L'Academie Francais have long sought to arbitrate over the French language such that terms cannot become an official part of the language until ratified. French native speakers, of course, do their own thing regardless so that the language evolves slightly out of step with the "official" version. No such problem with English, and it evolves freely in whatever ways its users need to aid communication. Eventually, agreeing with a point you made earlier, it is largely impossible to dictate changes since changes tend to end up happening by common consent and ignoring attempts to control. The rules of grammar and spelling are useful guidelines for now but are not the same as they were and will not remain static in the future. The fact this makes it a communication tool that is constantly improving to meet its users needs is one of the things I particularly love about it. As you said at the beginning, word geekery is very entertaining. 

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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The rules of grammar and spelling are useful guidelines for now but are not the same as they were

Don't get me started on the Oxford comma!

@majordennisbloodnok

Thank you Major, I stand corrected.

@derek-m I think you may mean “Krecktid’? Toodles.

@toodles

So now I have been 'Krecktid agin'. I may have to go lay down in a darkened room.

@derek-m 🤣

I asked and apparently Turing didn't publish anything on computing after 1950, so how he spelled program is irrelevant to an agreement that was made (or may have been made) in 1953. I don't know whether everybody accepted the 'program' spelling immediately or gradually over some time after the meeting. I do know that Strachey used program in a monograph he published in 1973.

Although there's no official spelling of British English, it's generally accepted that correct spelling is determined by the lexicographers who write dictionaries. I previously noted that both the Cambridge dictionary and Fowlers (which is published by OUP) both use the spelling 'program'.

If anybody knows of a dictionary or other reference, or any computing-related academic paper, that use the hypothetical 'programme' spelling in a context where I would use 'program' that has been published say this century or maybe even back to 1973, I would love to hear of it.

Posted by: @djh

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Although there's no official spelling of British English, it's generally accepted that correct spelling is determined by the lexicographers who write dictionaries. I previously noted that both the Cambridge dictionary and Fowlers (which is published by OUP) both use the spelling 'program'.

No. Correct spelling is determined (at least in English) by the users, not by lexicographers, and whilst most users use 'program', that is very different from all users. The dictionaries are describing the prevailing spellings and definitions, not dictating them. I covered this in a previous post, and this is a key difference between English and some other languages that do attempt to have an official body arbitrating what is correct and what is not. Indeed, for a word to be included in the Oxford English Dictionary, it only needs to have been used often enough to be recognised as legitimate, and the bar is pretty low. All the dictionaries recognise 'program' as the common form for a piece of computer code but all also recognise the other spelling as infrequently used in British English. The most accessible reference is https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/programme#English where the usage notes list "2. (British, rare) Alternative spelling of program (“computer program”)"

Posted by: @djh

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If anybody knows of a dictionary or other reference, or any computing-related academic paper, that use the hypothetical 'programme' spelling in a context where I would use 'program' that has been published say this century or maybe even back to 1973, I would love to hear of it.

There is nothing hypothetical about the 'programme' spelling. It's a reality. The link I posted above should satisfy your request for a reference that 'programme' is legitimately used as an alternative to 'program', but I'm still expecting you to try to suggest it's not good enough.