Major, we have a water meter (fitted some 20 ish years back), not smart AFAIAA but, with our property being classed as 4 bedrooms and just two residents, we reckon to save compared to Thames Water charges based on non-metered properties of this size. Strangely enough, postal codes about 2 miles away as the fly crows have a hose pipe ban but we do not as yet. Regards, Toodles.

Thanks, @toodles. And how, if you are able to tell, does the volume of water you're billed for compare with what you believe your usage to be? How accurate do you feel the meter is?

I suppose I'm trying to get a feel for whether there might be an overly high reading for consumption (and therefore overbilling) that is hidden by the far greater saving inherent in metered readings vs estimated standard rate for large house but with few occupants.

@majordennisbloodnok I’m sorry, I haven’t a clue Major Humph! I suppose that unless we had a second meter in series and that it was a calibrated device at that, we don’t really have any way to agree or dispute their readings really. All I know is that our very first reading once we had had the meter fitted, showed our bill was lower than previously. I suppose we have to take Thames Water on trust. (In the light of more recent revelations, perhaps this was not a prudent move!!!)

Having said that, we did have an electricity meter that continued to show energy was being consumed even when the isolator was opened! In that case, we came to an agreement with Southern Electricity as it was then as neither side had any certain way to calculate how much we had been metered for that we hadn’t consumed. Regards, Toodles.

No worries. Still useful info, so thanks.

The one company I know of who operate a network of smart water meters is Arqiva.
I believe they have a water meter network in SE England.

That's the same company who have the licence to operate the Smart Meters for gas and electricity in the Northern Territory of GB (incl Scotland).

They own the frequency band which was relinquished by ITV when television went digital (640-690MHz). That's what they deployed in The North,
which met with mixed results. Using only 400 masts, they covered the assigned territory, but the system didn't work well with sites
in the shadows of other buildings and mountains.

Enter some of the above keywords into a search engine, and you might learn more.

As for how Smart Water Meters might actually be used...
... the main benefit is to be gained by your regional water company.

They will build a database which maps each meter to a geographical address and supply pipe.
In times of water shortages, they can then switch off meters in a particular area, whilst keeping alive those which supply households on the Priority Services Register.

I have yet to think of a feature in a Smart Water Meter which would be to the benefit of a consumer.
Anything you'd want to achieve could just as easily be done using the existing stop-cock 'in the road'.

Posted by: @transparent

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The one company I know of who operate a network of smart water meters is Arqiva.
I believe they have a water meter network in SE England.

That's the same company who have the licence to operate the Smart Meters for gas and electricity in the Northern Territory of GB (incl Scotland).

…

Yes, I was aware the “smart” part is the same tech used in smart leccy meters. That adds a bit of familiarity for me.

Posted by: @transparent

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…

As for how Smart Water Meters might actually be used...
... the main benefit is to be gained by your regional water company.

They will build a database which maps each meter to a geographical address and supply pipe.
In times of water shortages, they can then switch off meters in a particular area, whilst keeping alive those which supply households on the Priority Services Register.

I have yet to think of a feature in a Smart Water Meter which would be to the benefit of a consumer.
Anything you'd want to achieve could just as easily be done using the existing stop-cock 'in the road'.

I’m going to address that bit in reverse order.

The main benefit is that, by being charged for actual consumption rather than an estimate (assuming the meter is accurate), the bill will be fairer and, in many cases, lower. A secondary benefit is that as the network of meters grows, it wil become harder for water companies to hide the wastage in their supply network; what they put in minus the actual legitimate consumption must be leaks and so forth.

As for the database, I agree. They will be able to see which households are the disproportionately heavy users. However, it is still illegal for water companies to disconnect customers, so the draconian measures you suggest are not ones that concern me. They can, however -at least I believe - restrict supply, and I would fully expect that to start with the households with the highest consumption per occupant, excepting vulnerable customers.

Unfortunately, that still doesn’t address the question of how accurate the meters are.

We have a regular water meter which was installed when the property was converted in 1991.

After about 10 years, the meter failed and was replaced.  There was a bit of argy bargy about how much we should pay for the period when we weren't being properly metered, but nothing too serious as they had evidence of typical usage.

We are at the high usage end at the moment because we have recently planted a new garden and there is a micro irrigation system to stop everything dying.  When it's established that won't be necessary I hope.

But generally I think if you have a meter you are paying for usage and the waterco shouldn't bellyache about it.  It's their job to meet (reasonable) demand.  They should apply any hosepipe bans first to unmetered properties. If you don't want a ban get a meter!

@downfield I felt that once meters became available in our area, we should have one fitted and pay for what we use. I would defend that idea and feel that everyone should pay for their consumption pro rata.

However, though I feel that everyone should pay based on their water use and waste disposal, I feel there is room for negotiation concerning the rate we are expected to pay - bearing in mind the proflogate nature of Thames Water’s management etc. Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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However, it is still illegal for water companies to disconnect customers, so the draconian measures you suggest are not ones that concern me.

The water companies do have an advantage if/when Britain again experiences drought conditions, such as occurred in 1976.
They can install stand-pipes 'in the road', shut off Smart Meter properties, and yet still meet their obligations for those on the Priority Services Register.

We already have a two-tier metering system for households with electricity smart meters.
Those with the meter configured in prepayment mode can have a command sent which switches off the supply by opening the relay contacts.

Households with credit accounts aren't liable to such a strategy.
If they fall into arrears, then the Electricity Supplier must first implement a procedure to convert them to a prepayment property.

Posted by: @downfield

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After about 10 years, the meter failed and was replaced.  There was a bit of argy bargy about how much we should pay for the period when we weren't being properly metered, but nothing too serious as they had evidence of typical usage.

I've just experienced a similar problem with my Smart gas meter (GSME).

Although few Forum members will find this story in a topic about water meters(!) I think I should now describe what is happening.

I was one of the first households to be fitted with SMETS2 metering back in March 2019.
As you might expect there were teething issues, and I had the complete set of four devices changed twice more in the following months!

My third (final) GSME was installed on 20th July '19.

The battery life was then reporting 2730 days, which is clearly less than the 10-years predicted lifetime.
... and yes, I have a photo to prove it because I'm a nerd and was actively bug-reporting to OVO.

However, that battery has not lasted the predicted 2730 days.
It actually expired on 22nd Oct'24.

As I've been very busy designing and building prototype monitors for the electricity grid,
I failed to notice that my own GSME wasn't providing any usage data until April'25.

Unlike a Smart Electricity Meter, a GSME cannot retain data because it lacks the power to do so.
A Smart Water Meter would obviously have the same problem.

I've been an Octopus customer for the past few years, which leaves them with the problem of estimating my usage for 6 months.

However, there is apparently an 'approved' methodology for making such an estimate.
It's based on the previous couple of billing periods prior to the outage.

That may seem odd because those month's bills would be for Aug & Sept '24,
whereas the lost meter readings were over a winter period.

What concerns me more is that Octopus themselves didn't pick up the lack of any response from my gas meter.

There are about a dozen SMETS messages which should be requested across the national smart meter network.

'Low battery' is obviously one of those.
Others include the sensors which detect tampering and attempted malicious attack.

That suggests to me that Octopus' own Kraken software system hasn't implemented the SMETS Messaging System.
Since they're one of the very best Suppliers, I'm guessing that most other Suppliers haven't been collecting Alert messages either!

Stand by for an increasingly large number of GSME batteries to start expiring soon.
That'll give Ofgem something to worry about 🤨 

Posted by: @transparent

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Stand by for an increasingly large number of GSME batteries to start expiring soon.

Very interesting!  I have noticed that the Octopus meter reading department and the tariff department don't exchange data because I have been on Agile for over a year and yet every so often I get emails asking for a manual meter reading.

I have twice told them that they get one every 30 minutes, and they apologise, but 6 months later they ask for another manual reading.

Posted by: @transparent

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The water companies do have an advantage if/when Britain again experiences drought conditions, such as occurred in 1976.
They can install stand-pipes 'in the road', shut off Smart Meter properties, and yet still meet their obligations for those on the Priority Services Register.

Sorry, @transparent, but I disagree. Legislation brought in since the 1970s makes that largely impossible and certainly illegal. Water companies have to draw up and maintain drought plans and if we ever got into any situation that overwhelmed those plans metered and unmetered properties would be rationed to the same degree.