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 Johnmo
(@johnmo)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 516
18/05/2025 10:57 pm  

Posted by: @jamespa
↑

Unfortunately installers all too frequently don't use the correct numbers

Then they should be made to follow good engineering practice and have calculations checked and then signed off. 

Posted by: @jamespa
↑

Surely you can accept that neither is perfect (except possibly with a newbuild where you.know the construction and ach accurately),  together they are better than either alone.

I accept neither is perfect. But the system doesn't seem to work with new builds either. Often see those quotes as 10+kW, which is insane. Even if built to minimum building regs and huge.

Using bad numbers is just poor, the installer or assessor should be knowledgeable enough to know if the numbers look bad or really just don't sound right and the outcome doesn't look correct. There needs to suitable checks and balances. But the issues are as detailed below.

Had a conversation with the brother in law about his son getting a new EPC, has added cavity wall insulation, 400mm of loft insulation, new windows etc. all the assesser was interested in was the log burner and knocking points of the score, everything else because a receipt wasn't available didn't count. Even though no receipt available for the stove either he could downgrade the property without cause but not improve.

The whole industry is p!ss poor.

A spreadsheet should be fine, but the inputter is often not. Gas consumption can be ok, but may not be dependent on how the heating is used. Brother in law again, uses best part of no gas, because they light the log burner it's cheaper. How do you legislate for that? You end up with a heat pump way to small.

Sensible data collection, build into a proper spreadsheet - with suitable checks and balances is the only way.

Maxa i32V5 6kW ASHP (heat and cooling)
6.5kW PV
13.5kW GivEnergy AIO Battery.


   
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 JamesPa
(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2447
18/05/2025 11:12 pm  

Posted by: @jamespa
↑
Posted by: @jamespa
↑

Unfortunately installers all too frequently don't use the correct numbers

 

 

Then they should be made to follow good engineering practice and have calculations checked and then signed off. 

Yes but we have to deal for now with the world as it is not as we would like it to be (whilst seeking to change it at the same time)

Posted by: @johnmo
↑

Gas consumption can be ok, but may not be dependent on how the heating is used. Brother in law again, uses best part of no gas, because they light the log burner it's cheaper. How do you legislate for that? You end up with a heat pump way to small.

Householder questionnaire.  If answers are wrong then the liability lies with the householder (just like insurance, if you don't declare a material fact, it's your problem).  Why ignore the good data that many will have because some data is poor when you can discover that by asking the householder.

Posted by: @johnmo
↑

Sensible data collection, build into a proper spreadsheet - with suitable checks and balances is the only way.

Which could include something based on gas consumption as part of the check and balance.  In a retrofit there may well be things about the construction which are unknown and unknowable.  At least if there is some independent measure the uncertainty can be flagged and dealt with.

 

I reiterate, for now we have to deal for now with the world as it is not as we would like it to be!

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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