Simon - my newly installed Daikin is far quieter than my neighbours 8 year old Mitsubishi Ecodan. Technology moves on. 
I totally agree with your point about relative noise. I live in rural Worcestershire. V quiet. The bloody noisy birds 😊. 
But different ASHPs make different noises. And carefully sited external units (don’t face the fan to the neighbours) will make a big difference. All part of the design. 

@julianc  I will do that - although I did have a long chat with Grant themselves and was quite impressed. We had a full and what seemed to be a frank discussion..... 

I agree that 17Kw is a big machine - coming with a double fan. The heat pump would stand 1.4m tall.

We had Global Energy Systems round and they ended up quoting for a 11Kw heat pump. This makes me wonder whether our potential installer has over-sized to be on the safe side. That's quite a big difference.

Our property is 186 m2. 

Our EPC is currently F and our space heating demand is 22,424 kWh per year whilst our water heating demand is 2320 kWh per year.

@jennyross we have 14kW in a 165m2 house and 22000 total kWh/year.  So about on par with your quote.  Our supplier said a 11kW ASHP would have been OK but advised us to go larger, which we did.  It sounds similar to yours, 1.4m tall and double fan.  I can just about hear it in the house if there is nothing else on but the fridge, bathroom fans, etc. are louder.  We don't have neighbours near enough to notice.

@jennyross, I have been very impressed with the feedback I've received about Grant UK - their customer service seems excellent.

The 17kW to 11kW differential is significant. We have an 18kW pump that is heating around 4,000sqft (around 370sqm), so the 17kW may seem oversized, but then again the F EPC may have something to do with that. What radiators do you currently have and will be using doing forward?

@editor good to hear about Grant. 
I’m  not sure what kind of radiators we have but this is what they look like. These are to be replaced by new radiators. Again I’m not sure what make. I will find out! 

Hi Jenny,

I would suggest that you look seriously at improving your insulation and draftproofing if your EPC rating is F.

Lowering your heating demand would not only mean a smaller ASHP would probably be adequate, but should also operate more efficiently and be more cost effective to run. You may also be able to use some, if not all, of your existing radiators.

As I keep saying, more emphasis should be given to reducing ones heat demand, rather than concentrating on more efficient ways to produce heat energy.

@derek-m I hear you. The ECP F rating is apparently due to the wet electric CH system. The house was built 1990 and we moved in 4 years ago. One year later we had an electrical fire because of the demand placed on the system by the electric boilers.

We are gradually replacing all the double glazing with more up to date double glazing. We have had various companies look at the possibilities of further insulating the property. The loft is good. The house is timber framed so it's not possible to have cavity wall insulation. It is clear that the previous owners and we have done what we can to improve insulation.

We have managed to get through a dire Scottish winter (exceptionally long and cold with ice lying for weeks) on two hours of heating a day (which implies that the insulation is not that bad). However, with the exception of our living room the house is cold without any form of heating. In February temperatures recorded on the outside terrace were circa minus 12-15. The hall has a woefully tiny radiator in it which never heats up because the radiators were laid in serial, and it's the last in the series. Outside it was minus 12. Inside it was c. 9-10 degrees. Two hours of heating and sufficient hot water each day cost us more than £250 a month. 

Yes - the radiator pipework is going to have to be changed too!

We are not technical experts. We have to trust installers to advise us correctly. If we question the installer and go against their advice we would have obviously have no comeback if the ASHP failed to provide sufficient heat or hot water and heating. 

Hi Jenny,

I wasn't wishing to sound critical of either you or your installers, you should certainly find a great improvement in both comfort and running costs when you get your ASHP installed.

When you talk about timber framed construction, is it similar to the extension that we had built some years ago, where there is a brick outer wall and a timber frame for mounting the plaster board. If it is the case you may find that insulation blocks have been installed within the timber frame.

For many years I have been investigating methods of reducing our heat demand, using and capturing as much of the free 'green' energy that we get from the Sun, along with improving the efficient of our heating system.

We are fortunate in that we have mains gas, so our heating costs are quite low, but I recently installed an air to air ASHP, so that we can utilise the power generated by our solar PV system in the most efficient manner, and thereby reduce our gas consumption.

Do you have solar PV? If not, I would certainly recommend getting a system installed if at all possible, it would help provide the power to drive your ASHP from Spring through to Autumn, and to a lesser extent during the Winter months.

Hi Derek, 

Thank you. We've found it difficult to get good and trustworthy information and we've had some previous bad experiences with tradesmen which has let us to treat all installers with some circumspection. Joining this hub and listening to the videos produced by Mars and other conversations have been really helpful. 

The timber frame for us is, as I understand, a brick outer wall and a timber frame for mounting the plaster board. There is some insulation by way of polystyrene blocks between the brick and the timber frame.

I absolutely agree that well-insulated houses are the way to go and have the potential to reduce heating costs to negligible - as with some eco-houses. Our electric wet heating system must be about the most inefficient method that exists to produce heat. We are definitely thinking about solar PV and that is next on our list. We are hoping very much that the ASHP proves its worth once we get it installed. Fingers crossed.

@jennyross, if your house is timber framed and built in 1990 its not going to be too bad for heat loss.  As you say the low EPC rating will be influenced by your heating.  My old house has the same EPC rating as my current one and it was very hard to heat because it has mostly solid walls and non insulated solid and suspended floors.  But it has gas CH and HW.  My current house, which is timber framed built in 1990 like yours, is miles easier to heat and the ASHP works well.  It won't be as cold where we are compared to you though.

Direct electric heating is the most expensive way to heat your house and HW, as you have found out.  Your EPC says 26,000; at 13p/kWh, that's c. £3300/year or £280/month.  If you have an ASHP, even with a COP of 2, you should half that. 

Although I maybe shouldn't be saying this here, even LPG would cost you a lot less than peak rate electricity per kWh.  LPG boilers are cheaper than ASHPs, are quiet and work very well even when it's cold.     

@jennyross

Hi, if you are cold and feed up now, it is nothing compared to how you will feel once you've had an ashp fitted.

6 months ago, we bought a 2650 sq ft new build home. Well insulated, but with only a 9kw LG pump. Winter was beyond hideous; cold, noisy and very expensive. Read what many people are saying and avoid, avoid, avoid.

Please, get any other type of heating other than an ashp. We're about to spend over £6000 to get our system switched over to gas. Not something we had budgeted for after buying a brand new house, but our only option as we have no intention of enduring another winter like the previous one. 

@sam

Hang on Sam.  We all feel for you and your bad experience but......... that experience isn’t down to the concept of ASHP. Your dilemma is with your installers and builders.