Oversized Daikin 9kw
Evening all, I wonder if someone can share any thoughts on my situation?
I sent the below email to Octopus in January which was the first opportunity when I could see how my 9kw Daikin installed last June was performing at or below the design temperature. I'm now in a situation where the Octopus heat loss design estimates my heat loss at ~8.5kw and my own Heat Punk heat loss is 6.6kw with more accurate inputs and air changes (not all rooms in my house have trickle vents on windows, the kitchen doesn't have an extractor which extracts externally etc). The measured heat loss from EmonCMS is ~4-5kw to maintain 21*C at an average outdoor temperature of -4*C. I spoke to Octopus today and they are waiting on MCS to confirm whether 'measured heat loss' is a suitable substitute to the various heat loss calculation methodologies / standards that exist. Having read some of the MCS standards I believe they focus solely on designed heat loss, not measured heat loss (the latter of course being more accurate). Octopus stated today their survey doesn't allow modifying any air changes/hr for each room so they are limited to the standard assumptions (which of course can lead to inaccurate results).
I'd welcome any insights or advice from others - I'd like Octopus to swap the 9kw high capacity unit (which is a software limited 16kw unit) with the 8kw low capacity unit which can modulate down lower to prevent cycling.
Monitoring available here:
"Good evening,
My thoughts are - good luck, you seem to have a reasonable argument for the replacement. That said Im not sure you could prove the current one is unfit for purpose so they may well decline, but worth a go.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
There have been several people on the OpenEnergyMonitor forums who have persuaded Octopus to replace their 9kW or 11kW Daikin with a smaller 6kW or 8kW Daikin. Take a look at this.
@jamespa thanks, it's way off of the MCS performance estimate and I think if it ended up in Court I could construct a sound case to justify it's not fit for purpose (based on efficiency, wording on the contract etc)
@big_si As has been mentioned you are not the first with this problem. Several 🐙 clients have had Daikin 9s changed for Daikin 8s. The first was Matt Drummer who is over on OE Monitor.
The 9kw is a 16 kw restricted by software and is famously juicy although there are people running them very efficiently. The restriction means they don't have the modulation range which is a pain.
The 4/6/8 are the same - all are 8s restricted by software but for some reason it doesn't have the same impact. All 3 modulate down very nicely. I have the 6kw Daikin and I am very happy with it. I run it on pure weather compensation and the compressor never turns off and it runs low without complaining or cycling.
Key for you is building a case with evidence so do talk to the other guys over on the OEM forum. Best of luck. 🐙 are pretty good if you make a strong, logical case.
@lucia thanks for the reply, I think I've now got sufficient evidence that it needs replacing particularly OEM data when it was operating at design temperature which I did not have last year when Octopus refused to replace it at my first request. I've since raised with NAPIT and MCS as additional levers. I just want the system to perform as intended and the 9kw isn't meeting expectations in that regard and hopefully Octopus learn from this with future surveys to reduce rework and increase customer satisfaction.
9kw monster swapped with the 8kw unit today - it's whisper quiet and running a treat so far! Well worth persevering with NAPIT as Octopus were reluctant to swap out the 9kw. Had to tweak the EmonCMS flow temperature sensor to before backup heater (as the 8kw doesn't have a backup heater) and updated the details on heatpumpmonitor.org
Looking forward to seeing how it performs next winter 🙂
@big_si thanks for the update. It’s still forecast to be unseasonably chilly for a few more days so you may get some insights. But good to hear you’re happy with the new smaller unit. Keep us updated.
Buy a copy of the The Ultimate Guide to Heat Pumps
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
-
Is Your 6kW Air Source Heat Pump Really a 6kW?
5 months ago
-
Warm weather and heat pumps.
5 months ago
-
Is your gut better than Math
6 months ago
-
Daikin COP / energy used measurement from MMI
2 years ago
-
Why does my second unit sometimes start up unexpectedly on a Daikin split system?
2 years ago
- 26 Forums
- 2,208 Topics
- 48.7 K Posts
- 67 Online
- 5,868 Members
Join Us!
Podcast Picks
Latest Posts
-
From Mevagissey to Mousehole, and Portmeon to Polzeath ...
By Transparent , 5 minutes ago
-
RE: Daikin 9kW to 8kW Swap Offer from Octopus
Not so. In my case it made the difference between 10.5...
By JamesPa , 26 minutes ago
-
@bontwoody, I have to say, the response time here is re...
By Mars , 2 hours ago
-
RE: Renewables & Heat Pumps in the News
It rather depends on what we call 'local area' and 'tot...
By Transparent , 4 hours ago
-
RE: Mitsubishi Ecodan F8 error
Better than an early Windows/DOS error 'Faulty keyboard...
By JamesPa , 5 hours ago
-
I can now, I done an automation in Home Assist...
By DREI , 5 hours ago
-
RE: Bosch CS5800i 5kW - Experience So Far
What a difference a pump makes. We don't have OpenEne...
By Steelbadger , 5 hours ago
-
RE: Inventor (Midea) Heat Pump short cycling advice
I installed the 80L tank (volumizer) things got better ...
By immunity , 10 hours ago
-
RE: Testing new controls/monitoring for Midea Clone ASHP
@papahuhu at the end of the day if you are happy with h...
By benson , 21 hours ago
-
RE: Can you recommend a Mitsubishi service engineer in the Rochdale area?
@dgclimatecontrol We'll all need annual servicing. How...
By Suzy-shadow , 22 hours ago
-
RE: Octopus tariffs - a quick comparison
Does indeed need checking, @tim441. Neither Homely ...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 22 hours ago
-
RE: How not to install a heat pump
Delighted to hear that the buffer has been replumbed as...
By JamesPa , 23 hours ago
-
-
RE: The Hidden Secret to a Successful Heat Pump: Pipe Size Matters
@davidnolan22 So far as I can tell from the 'other p...
By JamesPa , 1 day ago
-
RE: 5 Star Service from Havenwise
I keep getting havenwise ads on my Facebook feed, so cl...
By benson , 1 day ago
-
Automation options to maximuse efficiency & ToU tariffs
I started a conversation with ChatGPT. What automation...
By Tim441 , 1 day ago
-
RE: 4 Year Ongoing Heat Pump Battle With Poor Heat Pump Installation
@jamespa Oh, I know some that are good and some not so....
By ASHP-BOBBA , 2 days ago
-
RE: Samsung Heat pump with Yonos Pico circulating pump running all the time
I don't know how many pumps you have but I guess it's o...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago