Posted by: @iantelescope

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Cheaper, and quicker  to Replace the entire system than to continuously repair my current system?

Each month , new evidence appears about the poor performance of this heat pump.

It's not the heat pump, it's the plumbing of the system that is poor.

Assuming a 5kW heat pump is sufficient for your house, you appear to have all the components needed to make a working system. 

Unfortunately your installer appears to be a cowboy and has plumbed them together in the wrong order and omitted several key stages.  Regrettably the plumbing industry, indeed the whole construction industry, has quite a few cowboys as well as many good people.   I'm sorry you have encountered a cowboy.  It happened to me with a flat roof, which resulted in a boxing day flood and a large unexpected expense without any practical redress.

Ultimately only you can decide whether to fix it up using what you have, or replace entirely.  The people on this forum can advise you how to fix it up, but whether you choose to do so is up to you 

@jamespa 

Hi James,

Last straw

With "an Annual Service" now demanded, but unobtainable  from both Samsung and Telford "to maintain my guarantee", I have lost confidence in either my "installer" or the MCS,NIC.

If my Heat Pump were, as promised  last year , to be taken over by an NIC appointed "installer" I would  be more confident. Maybe!

Many thanks

ian

@iantelescope

My previous post was to highlight how I think that your system should be plumbed for correct operation. You therefore have various options-

a) You can try to convince your installer to follow the Samsung design and position the Volumiser correctly in the heat pump return pipe.

b) If your installer is reluctant you could try to get NIC to convince your installer to reposition the Volumiser.

c) You could ask your installer to provide details of his indemnity insurer and see if you can make a claim for the corrective work to be carried out by a competent installer, under your incompetent installer's insurance.

d) I would not at this stage recommend employing your own plumber to carry out the proposed corrections since it may cause problems in getting whatever grants are available.

Whilst I prefer to work through problems in a logical and systematic manner, you could, in the meantime, take Jame's advice and isolate the Volumiser from the system, assuming that there is an isolation valve in the pipework to or from the Volumiser. If there are valves on both the inlet and outlet then only close one of them.

I was going to leave the next stage until the start of the heating system, but it should be possible to carryout a number of test and adjustments, though you may have to open some windows to create more load on the system. Ensure that all the radiators have been correctly bled and that the system water pressure is correct.

If the Volumiser can be isolated then the next stage would be to fully open all the TRV's except for possibly one's located in bedrooms. Also turn any thermostats that may be present, to a setting 1C or 2C above the desired room temperature.

Adjust the 'Water Law' settings to say 25C Leaving Water Temperature (LWT) at an Outside Air Temperature (OAT) of 20C, and a LWT of 50C at an OAT of -5C.

Set both the primary water pump and secondary water pump to slow speed, either using the manual pump controls or using your Arduino system.

Monitor the temperatures around the system and post back the results.

Posted by: @iantelescope

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@jamespa 

Hi James,

 

Last straw

With "an Annual Service" now demanded, but unobtainable  from both Samsung and Telford "to maintain my guarantee", I have lost confidence in either my "installer" or the MCS,NIC.

If my Heat Pump were, as promised  last year , to be taken over by an NIC appointed "installer" I would  be more confident. Maybe!

Many thanks

ian

 

 

 

 

 

As to the failings of those organisations that justify their existence largely on the basis of consumer protection, no comment!

@jamespa 

Hi James,

Is "pipe Flushing under BS 7593:2019 an Annual service?

I have , at a cost of £600 had my pipes "flushed and cleaned" by a local  "Pipe flushing company".

Is "pipe Flushing an Annual service?

Outwith pipe Flushing, what is involved in the Annual service for the Tank on a Heat Pump ?

ian

Posted by: @iantelescope

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@jamespa 

Hi James,

 

Is "pipe Flushing under BS 7593:2019 an Annual service?

 

I have , at a cost of £600 had my pipes "flushed and cleaned" by a local  "Pipe flushing company".

Is "pipe Flushing an Annual service?

 

Outwith pipe Flushing, what is involved in the Annual service for the Tank on a Heat Pump ?

 

ian

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, pipe flushing is not part of the annual service.

So far as I know the annual uvc cylinder 'service' is just an inspection and partial test of the safety vent arrangement which it is recommended be carried out for any UVC irrespective of the heat source, by a 'competent'person'.  I don't believe it's a legal requirement but others may be able to prove me wrong. This is nothing heat pump specific, those with gas boilers and a UVC, a common pairing, also are subject to the same recommendation.

@jamespa 

Many thanks ,again, James.

Black  Ink

Having discovered "black ink "  with  "iron particles" in one of my pipe  water circuits, I, and a Flushing engineer , cleaned the pipes with  F3 Fernox  cleaner until the water was "clear".

How do I find the Cause of the "Black ink with metallic particles"?

Would "short cycling" "cause or increase " the black ink from excessive switching.?

ian

Posted by: @iantelescope

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@jamespa 

 

Many thanks ,again, James.

 

Black  Ink

Having discovered "black ink "  with  "iron particles" in one of my pipe  water circuits, I, and a Flushing engineer , cleaned the pipes with  F3 Fernox  cleaner until the water was "clear".

 

How do I find the Cause of the "Black ink with metallic particles"?

 

Would "short cycling" "cause or increase " the black ink from excessive switching.?

 

 

 

ian

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

Sorry I don't know definitively the answer to that question.

Having said that I think its much, much more likely that the 'black ink' and 'iron particles' are nothing more than the residues from radiator corrosion over the years.  My heating system, currently gas fired, certainly featured both of these when I recently drained it down and removed some radiators, despite having a mag filter in circuit. 

I am pretty sure both collect as sludge at the bottom of radiators and aren't flushed through in normal use thus never reach the mag filter.

If I were you I would worry about it only if it recurs quickly, otherwise just put it down to normal (albeit unwanted) behaviour for a central heating system!  

Posted by: @iantelescope

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I have checked the flow directions through the HEX and the Heat Pump itself. Nothing wrong.

Ok that's good.

So you could:

Switch the volumiser out of circuit using the valve you mentioned earlier.

Take the heads only off about half of the trvs (the ones in the rooms you use most downstairs) to ensure that there is always sufficient system volume, or simply turn them up to max.

Tweak the WC/water law if necessary 

That should give you a system that works tolerably well (and certainly much better than current) and heats your house without doing any plumbing or anything else that your installer could moan about.

This buys you time to sort the matter out properly with nic/MCS/your installer/trading standards/any other body you want to involve.

Then once you have sorted the contract side, or concluded it's not sortable, proceed logically with a rebuild (if by now it's not been done by your installer) as @derek-m suggests above

Posted by: @iantelescope

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@jamespa 

 

Many thanks ,again, James.

 

Black  Ink

Having discovered "black ink "  with  "iron particles" in one of my pipe  water circuits, I, and a Flushing engineer , cleaned the pipes with  F3 Fernox  cleaner until the water was "clear".

 

How do I find the Cause of the "Black ink with metallic particles"?

 

Would "short cycling" "cause or increase " the black ink from excessive switching.?

 

 

 

ian

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

I believe the major cause of magnetite (black ink) is as described below:-

Magnetite, commonly referred to as sludge, is the black substance comprised of dissolved and rusted metal from the pipework of your central heating system. It forms when air and water react with ferrous components – for instance, the water within the system reacts with the steel inside your radiators

@derek-m 

Hi Derek ,

All of my Radiators, with ONE exception, were replaced during the installation.

Also, All of the pipes were replaced with a 22 mm Bus Backbone running the length of the house.

Finally, all of the new radiators were connected by 15mm pipes to the 22mm Bus Backbone.

So, I think that you and James are correct...............................the Black ink with the magnetic particles may be coming from the sole veteran Radiator.

However, I am also suspicious about the condition of the 50 l "Volumising tank" being covered in warnings about "annual service ".

What "Maintenance" does a 50 L Tank need?

Many thanks for your patience ............

ian

@jamespa 

I think that you, James,  is  correct...............................the Black ink with the magnetic particles may be coming from the sole veteran Radiator.

The other source may be the "volumising Tank " being covered in Warnings about "Annual maintenance being required!.

What "Maintenance do you need to do on a Tank?

Your advice is spot on................

However, the NIC are saying that " my Installer should be given another chance to fix the problems."

I have strongly objected to my "installer" making matters worse.

Anti-freezing Valves?

Could I improve the performance of my Heat Pump by fitting Anti-freezing Valves to replace the Glycol .

Glycol reduces the Specific Heat of Water from 4.3 to 4.0 , a reduction of 7.5 %.

I would do the fitting myself.

Thanks for your patience....your advice is appreciated

ian