@terry1812 sorry my reply was lost as the forum had logged me out.
It definitely is on weather dependant and I have set it to the design and removed the schedules. I shall set the Madoka high and see how the temperature goes.
No they did not give a the full Daikin user manual just some octopus stuff. They did know I was going to 'fiddle' wiith the settings!
Daikin 6Kw ASHP. MG4 EV 1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
@jancold Hi again, I Don’t know what you mean when you say you set the madoka high. If you are running on the weather dependent mode (WDM) I don’t think you have to or can set the madoka, (because it should be just acting as a thermometer) but it’s possible. But if you are running on WDM the madoka doesn’t do anything. The ASHP is not referring to the madoka it is only looking at the WDC curve. That’s what will effectively determine what heat you get. And that is why you either have to tweak the WDC or the offset. Having said that I was reading a post on the community.openmonitor site and they were talking about using WDM with the madoka and modulation. Which I’ll admit I’m not clear about. The Daikin engineer who came out a couple of times to look at my system told me that when you use WDM the Ashp doesn’t look at the madoka. If you are using the madoka then once it sends a heat message to the Ashp then the WDC as set up is what the Ashp will refer to until the madoka says it’s hot enough and turns it off. I find the problem with using the thermostat ie the madoka is that it turns on and off and that probably loses efficiency. With WDM it’s on 7/24 and regardless of whether it’s too warm or too cold. It will only ‘rest’ when the return water temperature (RWT) is close to or at the LWT , for my system that never happened, so it just ran on. I do have some issues but that’s for another day and when the weather gets much colder.
But let me know how you set it, maybe there is something else I should be doing.
But let me know how you set it, maybe there is something else I should be doing.
It will depend on how its been wired and the system configured.
Most likely its been set up as a call for heat that is in addition to the WC. In this case the optimum setting is to have it a couple of degrees (or more) above the desired temperature to act as a limiter, than adjust the WC down until the house is just at the right temperature. The WC will then control the system except when something odd happens (like high solar gain), at which point the thermostat will kick in and stop the house overheating. This is generally the most efficient way to run, and often the most comfortable.
There are other ways it can be connected/configured and without knowing how its been done its impossible to be absolutely certain, but this is the most likely.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@terry1812 so I set the Madoka to 24 and this happens
So my Madoka my be set differently
Or your WC curve is set too high. The most likely thing to happen if you turn up the Madoka is that the house overheats, because the WC curve is set higher than it needs to be. So the next thing to do is to adjust the WC curve down until the house is just at the right temperature, balancing the rads if necessary.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa OK to reduce the slope by reducing the 'design temp' or/and moving the -4 to a lower temp? I'm beginning to realise I understood more of this than I actually did!! My heat losses were said to be as low as 3.5 (BG) and around 5 by heatpunk and Octopus so maybe the 6Kw Daikin is a bit oversize . I will dig out all my papers from the quotes and install so I can give better info. I'm busy this morning but should be free later. Of course today the OT has shot up to 15 from 9 yesterday.
Daikin 6Kw ASHP. MG4 EV 1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
@jamespa OK to reduce the slope by reducing the 'design temp' or/and moving the -4 to a lower temp? I'm beginning to realise I understood more of this than I actually did!! My heat losses were said to be as low as 3.5 (BG) and around 5 by heatpunk and Octopus so maybe the 6Kw Daikin is a bit oversize . I will dig out all my papers from the quotes and install so I can give better info. I'm busy this morning but should be free later. Of course today the OT has shot up to 15 from 9 yesterday.
You can either move -4 to lower or reduce the programmed Flow Temp at -4. The latter is more intuitive but either will work. Personally I would do the latter. Take small steps (eg one degree) and leave plenty of time (eg a day) to settle between particularly as you approach the right value. This is necessarily a slow process! You will likely need to tweak again mid winter, but that should then be that.
6kW is actually 8kW downrated in firmware so is a bit oversized. This just means that the heat pump will cycle at lower temperatures than would otherwise be the case. Hopefully you have plenty of system volume so the cycles will be reasonably long. If they turn out to be short some further tweaking may be desirable.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jancold Good afternoon. So I have had a conversation with my good friend, ChatGPT and this is what s/he said.
”
ok, so in weather dependent mode with the madoka set to say 18c, what will the heat pump do when it reaches 18c or higher, and where is the heatpump getting the internal temperature from?
When the Madoka controller is set to 18°C in weather-dependent mode, the heat pump
uses the Madoka's internal temperature sensor to modulate its output. The system will reduce its output as the room approaches the target temperature, but will not necessarily shut off completely, to maintain an efficient, low-and-slow operation.
What happens when the room reaches 18°C
The Daikin system adjusts the "leaving water temperature" (LWT) that it sends to your radiators or underfloor heating, rather than simply turning on and off. The Madoka controller acts as a modulating thermostat, fine-tuning the heat pump's output based on the live temperature readings in the room where it is installed.
As the internal temperature rises:
Approaching the set point: When the room temperature is below 18°C, the heat pump will generate a higher LWT based on the combination of the weather curve and the demand from the Madoka. For example, it might add a few degrees of "boost" to the LWT to raise the room temperature.
At the set point: When the room temperature reaches 18°C, the boost is removed, and the LWT will be exactly what the weather-dependent curve dictates.
Above the set point: As the room temperature continues to rise slightly above 18°C, the Madoka will tell the heat pump to actively reduce the LWT below the level set by the weather curve. This keeps the system running but at a very low heat output to prevent overshooting the target temperature and wasting energy.
Heating stops (safety feature): If the room temperature goes too far above the set point (e.g., more than 1.5–2°C), the system has a built-in cut-off that will turn the heating off completely. This can indicate that the base weather curve is set too high or that another heat source, like sunlight or a fireplace, is contributing to the heating.
How the heat pump gets the internal temperature
The Daikin system gets the internal temperature from the temperature sensor built into the Madoka controller.
Controller placement is key: This is why the location of the Madoka controller is important. It should be placed in a representative living area, away from drafts, direct sunlight, and other heat sources, so that it can accurately measure the ambient room temperature.
The Madoka's influence: The Madoka acts as the central hub for measuring internal temperature and communicating the required modulation to the heat pump's control logic. This ensures the system uses the most accurate and responsive temperature data possible to maintain your desired comfort level efficiently. “
Which is really useful and neither Daikin or my supplier have ever mentioned this to me!!
So a simple question to you, when you set your temperature to 24c, what does the madoka then subsequently display, the actual temperature in the house or the target temperature.
Also secondary question, there is a madoka controller app, but mine doesn’t work because it can’t find my Madoka, are you using that app or just the Madoka unit? Thanks.
@terry1812 Interesting it is a bit like a PID controller which reduces power input as the target temp is approached to avoid overshoot I used to use one to bring the temp of a mash tun to allow barley to do it's magic.
Yes the Madoka always reverts to room temp soon after making a change but yesterday I did use the Onecta app. The installer did say where he should fit it but we agreed a slightly lower position in the living room clear of a painting but away from heat sources.
It seems the Madoka is more sophisticated than an on/off switch thermostat.
Daikin 6Kw ASHP. MG4 EV 1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
@jancold May be because my installer knew that I was waiting on the availability of the Homely smart controller for the Daikin EDLA range that he fitted a bog-standard bang-gang on-off Neostat for me. I set the Neostat some 4 or 5 degrees higher than required and used the WC Curve via the MMI and this worked quite well except at the extremes of cold and mild weather. As it was springtime when installed, I never really got the hang of the WC curve settings, hence my not contributing any suggestions earlier. My Homely was installed before the following winter and has controlled everything since. WC is turned off on the MMI and Homely does its’ own version of control by the way. Regards, Toodles.
Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.
@toodles I had thought to go with Havenwise and their 6 month trial, unfortunately they have not got the OK from Daikin yet and the trial is only 3 months now. So I am playing with the system myself (with limited success) and will have to await the availability of Havenwise as I believe you had to do with Homely. I guess if I make a poor job of my settings then when I let Havenwise control it the savings will make me happy. There don't seem to be many of us Daikin 'nerds' on here as the other riff raff heat pump makes. 😀. Where's my coat!
Daikin 6Kw ASHP. MG4 EV 1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
