We own a flat (leasehold) with a gas boiler we're interested in upgrading to a heat pump. The flat itself is fairly new (~2010 build), well-insulated and ground floor so it'd be easy to stick an ASHP outside. However, technically the owner of the block itself owns the exterior, and we'd have to get their approval to make any changes, which we assume would include the pump.
We've asked the management company for the block about this and their response was "We don't have any experience with this so we can't say anything", which is frustrating - I'm not sure many installers would take "They haven't said either way so just go ahead, we'll probably get away with it". I took a look but couldn't find any official advice about this, but surely there must be some given the phase-out of gas boilers is coming? The local council (Southampton) didn't have any experience either, which is a shame as we've got a geothermal district heating system in the town centre so I thought they'd have some sort of precedent for pushing blocks to use green heating.
Anyone have experience or knowledge about installing heat pumps in leasehold flats?
We own a flat (leasehold) with a gas boiler we're interested in upgrading to a heat pump. The flat itself is fairly new (~2010 build), well-insulated and ground floor so it'd be easy to stick an ASHP outside. However, technically the owner of the block itself owns the exterior, and we'd have to get their approval to make any changes, which we assume would include the pump.
We've asked the management company for the block about this and their response was "We don't have any experience with this so we can't say anything", which is frustrating - I'm not sure many installers would take "They haven't said either way so just go ahead, we'll probably get away with it". I took a look but couldn't find any official advice about this, but surely there must be some given the phase-out of gas boilers is coming? The local council (Southampton) didn't have any experience either, which is a shame as we've got a geothermal district heating system in the town centre so I thought they'd have some sort of precedent for pushing blocks to use green heating.
Anyone have experience or knowledge about installing heat pumps in leasehold flats?
Hi, @samm. Whilst I don't have any experience of what you're outlining, I do remember that topic being raised in one of the podcast episodes
It might be worth you having a quick watch and see what you can glean as a first step. No doubt there will be others here, though, who will come along and comment further.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
Permissions and access are the issues. Planning permission will be needed unless it's the first on the building or within the curtilage and ir meets all the other requirements for permitted development. As you say freeholder permission will also be required. Is there an obvious location to which access is possible.
I definitely wouldn't proceed without the necessary permissions,. Other residents will complain (if only because they can and because if you are gge first tgey wont benefit from pd rights) and unless you are clean the chances are you will be required to remove it.
The video talks about exhaust air heat pumps by which I think he in practice means ones with ducted inlets and outlets. Exhaust air heat pumps for dhw are quite common, but I hadn't seen them for a whole dwelling, which doesn't mean they don't exist but may mean they are expensive. The air still has to vone from somewhere so I am not sure how it solves the problem, but it might be worth getting in contact.
In mainland Europe it's not unusual to see them on balconies, is that a location option?
You don't say how many flats are in the block @samm
This matters because there would be a cumulative noise problem if many ASHPs were installed over time.
Do you have a Residents Association which links together all flat occupants?
Have you considered the possibility of drilling boreholes to supply multiple flats. There are different rules and procedures for what would then become a heat-network. And you don't need to have all flats opting in to the network at the outset.
Don't assume this will cost more. And bear in mind that the COP (efficiency) of a Ground Source Heat Pump is significantly greater... so your running costs are also that much lower.
Permissions and access are the issues. Planning permission will be needed unless it's the first on the building or within the curtilage and ir meets all the other requirements for permitted development. As you say freeholder permission will also be required. Is there an obvious location to which access is possible.
I definitely wouldn't proceed without the necessary permissions,. Other residents will complain (if only because they can and because if you are gge first tgey wont benefit from pd rights) and unless you are clean the chances are you will be required to remove it.
The video talks about exhaust air heat pumps by which I think he in practice means ones with ducted inlets and outlets. Exhaust air heat pumps for dhw are quite common, but I hadn't seen them for a whole dwelling, which doesn't mean they don't exist but may mean they are expensive. The air still has to vone from somewhere so I am not sure how it solves the problem, but it might be worth getting in contact.
In mainland Europe it's not unusual to see them on balconies, is that a location option?
Hope that helps.
We're a ground floor flat - we have a balcony-like bit, but apparently the exterior wall of that is still owned by the freeholder so it wouldn't really make much difference. The 'obvious' location for an external ASHP is the exterior wall our gas box is up against, which connects straight to the gas boiler inside, though I guess that is our bedroom wall so noise might be an issue. It would be the first on the building, at least!
Exhaust air pumps sound interesting, and we're in a new enough building that each flat has its own mechanical air ventilation system already (as it's fairly airtight for efficiency). I'll have to look into them. Annoyingly, the vent fans are at the opposite end of the flat to the current boiler, though. I'm no plumber, but I imagine you can't just connect a hot water 'out' from EAHP to a normal hot water 'out' pipe and have it go the other way...
You don't say how many flats are in the block @samm
This matters because there would be a cumulative noise problem if many ASHPs were installed over time.
Do you have a Residents Association which links together all flat occupants?
Have you considered the possibility of drilling boreholes to supply multiple flats. There are different rules and procedures for what would then become a heat-network. And you don't need to have all flats opting in to the network at the outset.
Don't assume this will cost more. And bear in mind that the COP (efficiency) of a Ground Source Heat Pump is significantly greater... so your running costs are also that much lower.
We're a 3-storey block of 9 flats, but we're in a large development with several other blocks - 3-4 storeys, each being 9-40 flats. Attached a small diagram showing the rough layout of the area around our flat. Unfortunately, as we're only relatively small we don't have a residents association - just a useless management agency. At least one of the flats is an unoccupied investment property whose owners are uncontactable (...the fire alarm low-battery warning beep has been going for months).
How do heat networks work? Our gas is supplied externally, everyone's boiler is on an exterior wall with the pipe going in from the outside, so I assume the heat network would need lots of external piping as we couldn't realistically re-plumb the whole building with hot water pipes.
Realistically, the whole development should be on a heat network. But that seems like a much, much harder thing for us to push for as it'd involve persuading the freeholder of every one of the ~8 blocks in the development, via their utterly disengaged management companies, to agree to major construction work - plus presumably figuring out how ongoing maintenance of it would be handled.
How do heat networks work? Our gas is supplied externally, everyone's boiler is on an exterior wall with the pipe going in from the outside, so I assume the heat network would need lots of external piping as we couldn't realistically re-plumb the whole building with hot water pipes.
The external heat network would be beneath ground level.
You'd replace the boiler with a heat-exchanger unit. It uses the existing pipework to radiators.
The Trial Site of interest to you is at Stithians in Cornwall.
Kensa Heat Pumps, based in West Cornwall, have a scheme called Heat the Streets which would be worthwhile investigating. They handle all the borehole drilling and underground infrastructure. They then own and maintain that infrastructure, whilst you buy in their heat exchanger unit for your particular flat.
The external heat network would be beneath ground level.
You'd replace the boiler with a heat-exchanger unit. It uses the existing pipework to radiators.
The Trial Site of interest to you is at Stithians in Cornwall.
Kensa Heat Pumps, based in West Cornwall, have a scheme called Heat the Streets which would be worthwhile investigating. They handle all the borehole drilling and underground infrastructure. They then own and maintain that infrastructure, whilst you buy in their heat exchanger unit for your particular flat.
That's interesting, and what clearly should be done, but all the material on their website suggests their customers are councils and new build developers rather than individuals trying to get their blocks refitted - the 'join our network' bit is only for people who live adjacent to their trial network but aren't part of it.
It also says a minimum install spend and size of £100k/10-20 properties, so it'd require us to get multiple blocks bought-in. Unfortunately it doesn't look like this is a realistic option. We'd need to start a second job badgering management companies, and presumably wait years for it to come to fruition.
