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Gravel trays and flexible pipes

 
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Toodles 1 year ago
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 Lokisam
(@lokisam)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 29
Topic starter 22/05/2024 11:47 am  

This is a side issue to my post about noisy samsung 8k. My installers placed my unit at 60cm from the wall stuck right out onto the patio. They also didn't fit a condensate pipe so water pooling on patio. Also heat pump 1 inch out of level left to right. I questioned level in Jan and was told not a problem. They mentioned that they usually fit on gravel tray to aid levelling and draining. I asked if I needed to get gravel tray and they said no. Fast forward to their supposed final visit a month or so ago the installer comes alone and we try to manoeuvre the pump back (just me and him) Because the pipes go through the wall directly behind the heat pump, the installer says it may need shorter pipes. He also now says I need a gravel tray. The company are now saying they won't come back and finish off ( including going over controls, assessing noise and registering for guarantee) until I have had gravel tray installed. However, they don't seem willing to give me any dimensions, including how deep the gravel needs to be. The guy doing my patio has said he can do it but needs some guidance. The company also want to charge me 150 quid to supply and fit 400mm flexible pipes instead of the 750mm ones supplied with the unit. I personally think this is a bit cheeky. I think they put the pipes in a daft place. I also think they should have assessed the site and advised about any alterations needed before they started. So, I have a few technical questions:

1. Will changing 750mm flexible pipes to 400mm make noise worse?

2. Is removing pavers and installing gravel on top of existing concrete sub-base going to sort levelling and drainage? If so, depth and type of gravel? (According to them, this question is me overthinking)

3. Is it normal to run the flow and return pipes into the house directly behind the unit and then struggle to site the pump as hoses cant be bent enough, or is this an oversight on their part?

 

Thanks!



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Posts: 2403
22/05/2024 1:00 pm  

Sitting in a gravel tray (presumably solid base and sides) does not sound like a good way to drain the condensate away to me. Our pump sits on two concrete slabs set in a framed area of gravel but drains into soil as the paving was removed and area was levelled with sand first, then concrete set in place with the surrounding gravel. 

As to the pump being out of level - that is wrong; I saw one Heat Geek presentation where a pump had been fitted off-bubble and as a result, the bearing in the pump became worn and noisy. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Lokisam
(@lokisam)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 29
Topic starter 22/05/2024 1:36 pm  

@toodles thank you. I think I saw that one too. And it says in the manual that it needs to be level. I also wondered about gravel on top of concrete. And I don't want to pay for the concrete to be dug out. Out of interest, did your installers sort out the concrete pads and gravel or did you have to get that done before they started?



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
22/05/2024 1:57 pm  

@lokisam That was the very first task, two of the installers lifted the existing slabs, carried out the work as outlined before and lay three concrete ‘sleepers’ in the area. When they uncrated the pump, they were surprised to find the pump only needed two slabs to stand on; apparently this was the first of a new model that they had occasion to work on and the previous needed three. They supplied all the materials and came ready to start creating the base so it would have time tio set before placing the pump. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Lokisam
(@lokisam)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 29
Topic starter 22/05/2024 5:36 pm  

@toodles yes that's what I'd expect. I feel like my installers blame me for having a sloping patio. I don't think they assessed the site or planned the job at all. I got the quote and when I asked if the guy installing was going to come and go through positions of rads and pipe runs I was told not necessary, they will chat about that when they turn up with all the stuff. They didn't check the patio and when asked by my builders if a slab needed pouring or anything, they said no. The install was part of a back to brick refurbishment and they seemed annoyed it involved first and second fix and chasing in pipework.



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
26/05/2024 3:31 pm  

@lokisam One of the things that impressed me about the installing of pipework was that there wasn’t a blowtorch in sight - there were hundreds of joints, tees, corners and varying other angles in bright copper kettles… (oh sorry, got carried away there!) .. in gleaming bright copper, all in separated areas of a large carry tray (worth a few bob I reckon!) and the jointing gun (don’t know the proper name for this device) made short and very neat work of a retro-fit to my existing pipes. Had the pipes not then had insulation placed around them, I might have been tempted to polish them every week! 😀 Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Mike Patrick
(@mike-patrick)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 183
11/09/2024 12:27 pm  

@toodles I've not paid much attention to the condensate outlet on my Grant heat pump until recently.

It just drips onto the concrete base laid for the pump to stand on. In winter it can turn into an ice rink.

But this week I decided to measure the volume of condensate. It's proved to be about 2.5L per day which seems like a lot given the relatively mild temperatures in September and the fact that the ASHP is in water heating mode only at present. Weather willing I won't be heating the house until next month.

I wonder if 2.5L is a lot, or is this typical? I've no other figures to compare with it.

I should now get a length of hose to attach to the drain outlet. No more ice rink this winter, although it doesn't look like the outlet is designed to conveniently take a standard hose connection.

 

Mike

 


Grant Aerona HPID10 10kWh ASHP


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
11/09/2024 12:49 pm  

@mike-patrick I don’t know how much condensate drains away in a day as it drains into a gravel area between the mounting feet. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Mike Patrick
(@mike-patrick)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 183
23/09/2024 1:12 pm  

@toodles Happy ending for me.

Grant supplied me  (gratis - thank you Grant) with a connector for the condensate drain hole.

I connected a short section of hose which feeds into a small gravel soakaway that I dug out near the ASHP.

The slab on which the ASHP stands now drains properly (no more ice rink in winter).

Having had fitted a new isolator and, at last, the proper external grade supply cable (correcting the original installer's work) and also cleaned the heat exchanger fins that's my maintenance for this year.

Mike


Grant Aerona HPID10 10kWh ASHP


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2403
23/09/2024 1:42 pm  

@mike-patrick I’m pleased to hear it has ‘Turned out nice again’ for you; politeness and perseverance often wins through.😉 Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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