Effect of buffer tank or volumiser on heat pump system
Can someone please either confirm or put me right on the following:
My understanding is that a buffer tank will introduce mixing of flow and return water in a system and causes its overall efficiency to reduce as a higher flow temeperature is needed.
Do volumisers have the same effect? as an installer is telling my brother in law that it wont effect the efficiency and is there as a safe guard for the defrost cycle.
I also thought that if you add up the volume of the radiators and pipes you could then say whether a volumiser was needed or not.
Thanks in advance.
House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60
You are basically correct in what you state.
A buffer tank may cause lower efficiency due to mixing unless the water flowrate both in and out is kept balanced.
A volumiser vessel, as the name suggests, just adds volume to the system. If you look in the heat pump manual it should state the minimum required volume for the system. If the heat emitters and pipework do not provide sufficient volume then a volume vessel would be required.
I suppose it also depends where the volumiser is located, since it will lose some thermal energy, which could add to the overall energy loss if located outside the buildings thermal envelope.
There will also be added cost.
@derek-m Thanks Derek. Apart from the cost issue, would you say it was better not to have a internal volumiser if there were sufficient volume of circulating water in the radiators or is cost the only downsize?
House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60
Posted by: @bontwoody@derek-m Thanks Derek. Apart from the cost issue, would you say it was better not to have a internal volumiser if there were sufficient volume of circulating water in the radiators or is cost the only downsize?
I don't know if anyone has actually performed any tests to see if having extra water volume within the system, could improve the defrost cycle. I suppose a further possible downside would be if the system contains anti-freeze, since more anti-freeze would also increase costs.
Unless the flow rate of each water pump is matched, then there could be mixing occurring within the LLH.
Probably the easiest way to optimise the system operation, would be to try to ensure that the primary water pump (the one at the heat pump side), is always supplying slightly more water flow than the secondary water pump.
@bontwoody I went with an inline volumiser. All you say is correct, it cannot detract anything from efficiency, whereas a buffer or LLH always does - you can only seek to minimise that inefficiency with 1ary/2ary side flow rate balancing but you'll never get to zero loss.
I believe tests have been done that show that the effect defrost with a volumiser can be a bit better because there is that higher volume of hot water circulating. I have the volumiser on the flow side of the CH circuit, between the HP and the rads, inside the house in the airing cupboard. my reasoning for this is that it stores water at the LWT when the HP shuts down, meaning that at the next startup there's 50L of water already in the circuit at the last LWT, which I think smooths startup a little bit. and any heat loss is into the house.
the main reason to have one though is if your system volume is too low . I was just over the min but decided to add one to be sure (and I wasn't sure about which TRV's I'd keep at the time either), no real downside other than buying it / fitting it / finding room for it .
My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs
I found this by Graham Hendra which is interesting around the siting of a volumiser.
House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60
@bontwoody yes thats one of the ones I read when making my decisions.
My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs
Apologies for re-introducing this topic. I was persuaded by contributers on this forum, that I should remove the second CH pump and change the function of the buffer tank to use it as a volumiser.
I have forgotten how it was suggested that I should use the four connections on the tank in this configuration.
Existing connections are LHS: Top - From ASHP; Bottom - Return to ASHP RHS Top- To CH: Bottom - Return from CH
- 22 Forums
- 2,045 Topics
- 44.5 K Posts
- 56 Online
- 3,266 Members
Join Us!
Trusted Installers
Struggling to find a reliable heat pump installer? A poor installation can lead to inefficiencies and high running costs. We now connect homeowners with top-rated installers who deliver quality work and excellent service.
✅ Verified, trusted & experienced installers
✅ Nationwide coverage expanding
✅ Special offers available
Latest Posts
-
RE: Samsung Gen6 16kW tribulations
@emceed, can you please give us an update on your syste...
By Mars , 10 hours ago
-
RE: Getting the best out of a heat pump - is Homely a possible answer?
Regarding the homely data access issue (or not being ab...
By benson , 10 hours ago
-
@fillib It would be very interesting indeed to determi...
By JamesPa , 13 hours ago
-
RE: ASHP Ecodan L9 error - No Heating but Hot Water
@phoenix15 Sorry to hear that, we are all the way down ...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 16 hours ago
-
RE: Yes, the "zoning with ASHP" topic again...
Yes exactly that. The UI presents it as adjusting the ...
By JamesPa , 19 hours ago
-
RE: Solar Power Output – Let’s Compare Generation Figures
@editor Well last MAY i know was not the greatest for s...
By Andris , 2 days ago
-
What's the problem you are trying to solve. The answer...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
Good luck. For what it is worth my system was very def...
By JamesPa , 3 days ago
-
RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump
I agree @mark-h The Building Regs are now very readable...
By Transparent , 3 days ago
-
RE: Help me understand my Mitsubishi Ecodan system
@carpenterstation When changing settings in the ser...
By RobS , 3 days ago
-
RE: Ecodan Legionella cycle - immersion heater problem
Thanks for letting us know @clockworks I admire your ...
By Transparent , 4 days ago
-
RE: Revised version of MCS-020 (noise standards for heat pumps)
As you say this is no change, which I personally think ...
By JamesPa , 5 days ago
-
RE: What happens when the outside temperature exceeds the upper WC point?
@editor not via the WC curve but as @old_scientist ment...
By bontwoody , 5 days ago
-
RE: MHHS and Heat Pump compatibility
@toodles to be clear I don't know if there will be a re...
By Scalextrix , 5 days ago
-
I did not know this concept, although others might. I...
By Morgan , 6 days ago
-
RE: Help me keep the faith with my air source heat pump installation
@adamk it's probably filtering different providers in t...
By Mars , 6 days ago
-
RE: why solar diverters for HW instead of the heat pump?
I should probably add to my comments above that, whilst...
By JamesPa , 6 days ago
-
RE: Commencing on an ASHP Installation Process
Lots of reading and questioning which the background ma...
By JamesPa , 7 days ago
-
RE: The Great British Heat Pump Quiz
Not sure how that happened 🤣 I suspect that it ...
By Mars , 7 days ago