Choice of heat pump - Help needed - Vaillant Arotherm versus Samsung versus Logic Air versus Grant Aerona
I have a quote from an installer with a choice of 4 heat pumps:
Vaillant Arotherm 3.5 kW
Samsung R290 5 kW
Logic Air R32 4 kW
Grant Aerona 6 kW
The house has a heat loss of about 3.3 kW. Price-wise there is surprisingly little difference.
I have a couple of questions:
1. I have air bricks which I believe would prevent using the R290 heat pumps since the heat pump would be next to an outside wall. How do manufacturers expect these heat pumps to be used since it seems like a very common scenario to have air bricks and a heat pump next to an outside wall.
2. With the first two ruled out and the Grant seemingly a bit rubbish (inefficient, noisy and ugly), that leaves the Logic Air. By the specs the Logic has very good SCOP values and is very quiet but I'm struggling to find real world opinions on it. Does anyone have it istalled or have an opinion on what it is like?
Thanks
I'm far from an expert, @dorkypark, but my understanding is that openings like air bricks are only an issue if within 1m of the bottom of an R290 heat pump. As a question to everyone reading this, if you have an air brick inside that area, is it possible to get it moved further along the wall? @Dorkypark, if moving an air brick along wouldn't cause any problems to the way the building ventilates itself, is that something you might have space to do?
Looking at the list you gave, Samsung are getting a bit of a panning on this forum for their rather high-handed customer service attitude. Irrespective of the quality of their kit, I'd avoid them on that alone, personally.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
I'm far from an expert, @dorkypark, but my understanding is that openings like air bricks are only an issue if within 1m of the bottom of an R290 heat pump.
The Vaillant requires 2.1m to 3.1m. See the attached picture. My air bricks seem to be spaced about 1.5m apart so I guess it would be a case of blocking them up rather than moving them. Probably easier to get an R32 heat pump!
Posted by: @dorkyparkthe first two ruled out and the Grant seemingly a bit rubbish (inefficient, noisy and ugly), that leaves the Logic Air. By the specs the Logic has very good SCOP values and is very quiet but I'm struggling to find real world opinions on it. Does anyone have it istalled or have an opinion on what it is like?
Inefficient noisy, not sure where that statement comes from?
How efficient the heat pump is down purely to system design, many things screw with this figure - positive or negative. Especially the design temperature, zones, use of a buffer or volumiser etc.
If it was as simple as pick the best make, the whole thing would be easy. Best to work through the design advantages or shortfalls and not get too fixated on makes or models, that's the last decision to make, not the first.
@dorkypark, welcome to the forums! To be blunt, there’s not a huge difference between most branded heat pumps themselves. What really sets them apart is the quality of their controls and, more importantly, the competence of the installer. If the system is well-designed and the installer understands the ins and outs of the heat pump they’re fitting, you’ll likely end up with a solid system regardless of the brand.
That said, I encourage homeowners to heavily consider after-sales support from the manufacturer. On that basis, I often steer clear of Samsung, as their manufacturer-side support is notoriously poor. Grant and Vaillant, on the other hand, have strong reputations for reliability and support. I can’t comment on Logic Air.
Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU
From Zero to Heat Pump Hero: https://amzn.to/4bWkPFb
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
Posted by: @AnonymousInefficient noisy, not sure where that statement comes from?
I guess I'm wrong about the efficiency but the sound power level of the Grant is 65 dB vs 54 dB for the Vaillant and 52 dB for the Logic. More than 10 dB makes a big difference, though who knows if they used the same measurement method.
Thanks @johnmo and @editor for the information. I'll certainly be reading up further about what makes a successful heat pump installation (beyond simply aiming for a low flow temperature...).
@dorkypark please start by vetting your installer(s) and check their reviews and see if they can give you references to recent projects they've completed. Low temperature systems are the way to go for inefficiency, but you need that system designed and installed correctly.
Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU
From Zero to Heat Pump Hero: https://amzn.to/4bWkPFb
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
@editor dont you mean efficiency (not inefficiency) Mars? 🙂
House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60
We’ve just had a Vaillant installed (literally finished today) and the installer (Heatgeek elite) and Vaillant support has been excellent. So personally an established brand versus an unknown of LogicAir is an easy decision. I agree with discounting Samsung and Grant.
But you still need an installer who knows his stuff and such a wide choice makes me question Why?
2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof Solar thermal. 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (very pleased with it) open system operating on WC
Posted by: @judithunknown of LogicAir
OP missed the make, Ideal from the model name 'LogicAir'
So not really unknown
Posted by: @editor...
To be blunt, there’s not a huge difference between most branded heat pumps themselves. What really sets them apart is the quality of their controls and, more importantly, the competence of the installer. If the system is well-designed and the installer understands the ins and outs of the heat pump they’re fitting, you’ll likely end up with a solid system regardless of the brand.
...
@dorkypark, I don't think it's possible to overstate what @editor has said here.
As I'm sure you're aware, a heat pump is just a great big fridge, extracting heat from the air outside and heating water. How that water is then used is the clever bit, and tailoring it to a particular home is the key. Design and implementation, not brand, and that requires an installer who knows what he or she is doing and is prepared to be professional about it.
It's perfectly technically possible to put a factory-tuned Ferrari V8 engine into a Reliant Robin. It doesn't mean you'll end up with a good result at the end of the exercise.
105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs
"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
@majordennisbloodnok As I understand it, a Robin Reliant is hardly the most stable vehicle even with its’ own intended engine on board! Now, a V8!? Eeeek! What about a conversion to a 3 motor E-Reliant? 🤯 Toodles.
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
- 22 Forums
- 2,074 Topics
- 45.5 K Posts
- 96 Online
- 3,350 Members
Join Us!
Trusted Installers
Struggling to find a reliable heat pump installer? A poor installation can lead to inefficiencies and high running costs. We now connect homeowners with top-rated installers who deliver quality work and excellent service.
✅ Verified, trusted & experienced installers
✅ Nationwide coverage expanding
✅ Special offers available
Latest Posts
-
RE: 5 Star Service from Havenwise
@sheriff-fatman Good post. I am also considering Hav...
By Morgan , 1 hour ago
-
RE: Getting the best out of a heat pump - is Homely a possible answer?
@editor Cobbler’s Mantra that!
By Toodles , 2 hours ago
-
RE: What’s the modern take on advised types of insulation?
Grant was my local MP before he lost his seat. He was ...
By Jeff , 17 hours ago
-
RE: Radiators downstairs are cooler at the bottom after ASHP install
@melonbuffet This is great assuming now the down stairs...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 20 hours ago
-
RE: Commencing on an ASHP Installation Process
@jamespa Thanks for your input into this thread so far....
By Sheriff Fatman , 20 hours ago
-
Pacific Blue reveals ageing Codrington Wind Farm decommissioning plans.
Australia Blue, the first wind farm in Western Victoria...
By Morgan , 21 hours ago
-
RE: Ripped Off: How UK Homeowners Are Paying Gas Prices for Wind Energy
The challenge is who pays, who holds the debt and the i...
By Jeff , 1 day ago
-
RE: Flow rate discrepancy between ASHP and manifold
That's useful thanks, I hadn't seen that table before. ...
By AshRolls , 2 days ago
-
In principle I agree, @johnmo, but with provisos. The...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 2 days ago
-
RE: Heat pump installation and BUS Grant timings
@jamespa Thats how I understood it too. 🙂
By ASHP-BOBBA , 2 days ago
-
RE: Antifreeze top up for my heat pump - is this a rip off?
@sallyl That sounds about right if they are re-filling ...
By Brendon Uys , 2 days ago
-
RE: Enabling WiFi: Samsung ASHP on Smart Things App
I would switch it off and see if anyone noticed. We use...
By Anonymous 5011 , 3 days ago
-
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Heat pump designers ...
By JamesPa , 3 days ago
-
RE: Jokes and fun posts about heat pumps and renewables
@toodles they're a rowdy bunch!
By Mars , 3 days ago
-
RE: Home energy storage & battery register
@jamespa To a certain extent, by exporting to the grid ...
By Toodles , 4 days ago
-
RE: Forum updates, announcements & issues
@editor Fairy Nuff Mars, I doubt that my ramblings woul...
By Toodles , 5 days ago
-
RE: Confusion about heat pump sizing
We’ve published a deep dive into heat pump sizing, and ...
By Mars , 5 days ago
-
We’ve published a deep dive into heat pump sizing, and ...
By Mars , 5 days ago
-
RE: Kensa GSHP finally installed - now to start the optimisation process
Just had a quick scan of the manual and should be weath...
By Anonymous 5011 , 6 days ago