Next year, we have another episode of our podcast dedicated to the buffer tank. It’s going to be a real in-depth plunge, and I’m assembling a really competent panel to get definitive answers and examples. 

Posted by: @editor

↑

Next year, we have another episode of our podcast dedicated to the buffer tank. It’s going to be a real in-depth plunge, and I’m assembling a really competent panel to get definitive answers and examples. 

That will be fun!

 

@jamespa Yes, it should be fun, depending on your definition of the word. 😂 I was aiming for a really balanced discussion. Ironically, every installer I know who strongly advocates for buffers has declined to join, including over 15 Aira engineers. That’s a strong message in itself.

Posted by: @editor

↑

@jamespa Yes, it should be fun, depending on your definition of the word. 😂 I was aiming for a really balanced discussion. Ironically, every installer I know who strongly advocates for buffers has declined to join, including over 15 Aira engineers. That’s a strong message in itself.

That's a shame as I was looking forward to the fireworks, but as you say it's a strong message which needs to be heard.

 

Posted by: @editor

↑

every installer I know who strongly advocates for buffers has declined to join, including over 15 Aira engineers. That’s a strong message in itself

Very telling!

@mars - have you considered 'empty-chairing' the buffer tank advocate.  It would send a very powerful message throughout the video without you having to repeat it.

@editor 

My Heat Pump consumes 40% more Energy than the Gas  boiler it replaced

Having kept my Gas consumption records before switching to a Samsung Heat Pump I can compare  Energy Consumption between Gas Boiler and Heat Pump.

The  Energy consumed on Sept,Oct, and Nov 2024 by my Heat Pump was 42% ,33% and 37% of the Energy consumed by my Gas Boiler between Sept and Nov 2021.

With Electricity costing 3.8 times the Cost of Gas the Heat Pump becomes uneconomic.

My Heat Pump is consuming  ~40% more Energy than the Gas boiler it Replaced. ( and that's before the energy Increases !!)

Can anyone supply the name of an affordable Software Design package for Heat Pumps comparable to SPICE in Electrical Engineering.

Definitive mathematical solutions using differential equations .................... competent modelling !!

With definitive mathematical answers ,I will then decide if Buffer tanks, Heat Ex-changers , Volumisers are useful or not!

Perhaps you should sort out /have someone else sort out your system and then you’ll will know what matters. I know several posters here have told you what to do. 

Then you can model it knowing some data points. Until then it is GIGO.

Our system is running a cop in region of 5 and the cost is considerably lower than our gas previously. So yours is demonstrated to be poor. Just fix it, modelling not needed.

Posted by: @iantelescope

↑

@editor 
My Heat Pump consumes 40% more Energy than the Gas  boiler it replaced
 Having kept my Gas consumption records before switching to a Samsung Heat Pump I can compare  Energy Consumption between Gas Boiler and Heat Pump.
The  Energy consumed on Sept,Oct, and Nov 2024 by my Heat Pump was 42% ,33% and 37% of the Energy consumed by my Gas Boiler between Sept and Nov 2021.
 
With Electricity costing 3.8 times the Cost of Gas the Heat Pump becomes uneconomic.

Shouldn't the headline be My Heat Pump costs 40% more to run than the Gas boiler it replaced
The heat pump energy input (kWh, I assume) is only about 40% of the gas consumption but the big difference in unit cost between electricity and gas makes electricity more expensive (unless you get on a heat pump friendly tariff). Add in an annual heat pump service at ~£250 and the situation will look even worse.
 

@johnr 

Running costs:

Yes John , I stand corrected again .You are of course perfectly correct .....forgive my anger ..........

I meant to say that My Heat Pump costs 40% more to run than the Gas boiler it replaced.

This 40% figure excludes the fuel increases !!

Building Heat Pump costs

Again ,you are perfectly correct in pointing to the building costs of circa £16000 .

The Scottish Govt having repaid some £3000 MY up front Building costs are currently ~£13000 !!!

Service costs:

Because of the extensive Sawing , hammering and general abuse of the  Pipe Work I  have had BOTH of my pipe circuits Flushed  at a costs of ~£600.

Further damage has been done by 18 months of "Short Cycling " caused by my Heat Pump being wrongly adjusted for a 10 minute cycle .

The 10 minute cycle was originally attributed to the Water Volume in the primary circuit being insufficient.

Further damage has undoubtedly been caused by running the Primary Water circuit with an "insufficient WATER VOLUME" .

The Water Volume was increased by my Installer advised by Samsung when fitting a 50 L "Volumising tank" .

The Justification for the 50l tank was later modified to that of reducing the build up of ICE on the fins of the Heat Pump itself.

Measurements: Lets get numerate!

COP has a limited meaning .............what Should ALSO be measured is the REAL COP !

REAL COP is the Ratio of Energy available at the start of the Radiator Circuit , kWh ,to the total input Energy, kWh.

 REAL COP =   Energy available at the Start of the Radiator circuit / Total Input Energy:

 

Here the Blue line represents the COP at the Heat Pump Output . Here an average of 3.06 over the last two or more months !!

Here, the RED line represents the REAL COP at the Start of the Radiator circuit.: Here an average of 2.4 over the last two  more months !!

A REAL COP of 2.4 is totally uneconomic when the ratio of Electrical Energy to that of Gas is 3.8 :1 !!

The king is in the altogether .....................Heat Pumps have many unspoken problems.

@editor Will Brendon Uys be on the panel? I understand he is head of design within British Gas and I've seen videos with him in advocating against buffers in most situations, so I'd be interested to why they are still being included in quotes without any obvious reason.
I had BG do a quote in the past couple of weeks which I have accepted, but only after asking for the buffer to be removed. It's a single zone house, 22mm copper pipework between floors, 15mm to radiators and enough volume for defrost, so no reason that I can see for a buffer.
The initial reason I was given was that Vaillant require a buffer but after I pointed out that plenty of Vaillant's are installed without one the surveyor (who was very good otherwise, no complaints there) quickly removed it and I saved just under £600 and a huge amount of space in a cupboard.

@sandy Brendon will almost certainly be on it, unless there’s a scheduling issue. He’s been driving change at BG, but interesting what you’ve mentioned about your recent quote… glad to see to the buffer was removed though. Well done for flagging this.