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Heat wave 2022 & the case for A2A ASHPs

Mars · 2022-07-19T07:18:29Z

While the UK is still a ‘cold’ country when compared to global hotspots, this mini heatwave has been very uncomfortable because our insulation attempts. I imagine we’re not alone. To negate the heat, we’ve closed all blinds and curtains to reduce solar gain, but the house is still remaining very warm. Opening windows hasn’t helped, and fans just move around hot air. What’s your experience been like, and how have you kept your house cool(er)?

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ChickenBig

(@chickenbig)

Reputable Member Member

Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 292

26/07/2022 9:15 pm

Posted by: @derek-m

I think that I have also seen some manufacturers information that had a combination A2W and A2A system.

Interesting; I did see "hydrobox"/"hydro kit" for a couple of the VRF units (Panasonic and LG), and have found the Argo iSeries (looks to have been around for a while, but not actively developed in that time) and a smattering of information about the Samsung EHS TDM+. Do these count as air conditioning or a heat pump? 🙂

Posted by: @derek-m

Do you have solar PV?

I am trying to get 5 or 6 kW put on the roof. Depending on whether the group-buy installers are willing to put in a hybrid inverter (so I can hook up some DIY batteries once they have left) this may be easy or not so easy.

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Kev M

(@kev-m)

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Joined: 5 years ago

Posts: 1276

26/07/2022 9:38 pm

Posted by: @diverted-energy

think this needs rethinking..

1) planning permission is not needed, unless building is grade listed.

2) don't try to Air Condition every room in your house if communal landing, put one there and blow into each room.

Downstairs, just the lounge or living area and justeave doors open to each additional room you need cooler.

I have a three bedroom detached and two, a 12,000 BTU and an 18,000BTU is plenty. For heating smaller rooms with Solar, use portable oil heater in discreet location in conjuction with A/C. Consider it mass heating or cooling.

Paid less than £900 for both. Buy them yourself and pay an engineer to install by ringing around.

Do you have a link to the planning legislation or official guidance to support the statement about planning permission? I can only find the two below. Most of the material in Google searches that comes from the AC industry/installers omits to mention G3 in the second link.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/heat-pumps/planning-permission-air-source-heat-pump

and

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/14/crossheading/class-g-installation-or-alteration-etc-of-air-source-heat-pumps-on-domestic-premises/made.

Also, this is some guidance from one London council.

https://www.camden.gov.uk/plant-ventilation-extraction-air-conditioning-equipment-planning-permission

I know many have installed ACs without permission but if it were me I'd check with my local planning department just to be on the safe side.

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ronin92

(@ronin92)

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Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 64

29/07/2022 10:18 am

This person's experience with A2A rules made me hesitant of going down this route. It appears it's not simply permitted development.

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batalto

(@batalto)

Noble Member Member

Joined: 5 years ago

Posts: 1092

29/07/2022 1:40 pm

@ronin92 I've got 5 separate AC units and a heat pump - no issues

12kW Midea ASHP - 8.4kw solar - 29kWh batteries
262m2 house in Hampshire
Current weather compensation: 47@-2 and 31@17
My current performance can be found - HERE
Heat pump calculator spreadsheet - HERE

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Majordennisbloodnok

(@majordennisbloodnok)

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Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 1759

29/07/2022 2:36 pm

Just because something may need planning permission doesn't mean it'll be a problem. Local councils have a vested interest in promoting renewable heating and renewable energy generation technologies, so there's a good chance they'll be only too keen to agree as long as they can see it's not upsetting the neighbours.

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and SPH5000 inverter
1 x Myenergi Zappi
1 x VW ID3
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs

"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"

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Kev M

(@kev-m)

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Posts: 1276

29/07/2022 8:36 pm

I looked into the planning rules around heat pumps because I live in a conservation area and wanted to make sure my ASHP would comply. I looked for the legislation and examples of its interpretation from councils rather than take the word of strangers from the internet or that of commercial organisations with a vested interest in assuring you everything will be fine.

I've posted some of the links I found above. I didn't find anything from a government department or council that supported the general statement 'A2A outdoor units don't need planning permission'. If anyone has found such a link, please post it.

If you want to confirm that a proposed development does not require permission (or is a permitted development) then you can do so via a lawful development certificate.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/responsibilities/planning-permission/lawful-development-certificates

Or you could take a chance and just do it; plenty have.

Maybe someone should start a petition to make ACs permitted development?

👍

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Derek M

(@derek-m)

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Posts: 4425

29/07/2022 9:40 pm

@kev-m

I installed an A2A Heat Pump which is used predominantly for heating and very occasional cooling. As far as I am concerned it meets the criteria for permitted development as a ASHP, which does not require planning permission. Where you probably would have problems is if you have multiple A2A and A2W heat pumps on the same property.

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Diverted.Energy

(@diverted-energy)

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Posts: 86

29/07/2022 10:11 pm

Posted by: @batalto

@ronin92 I've got 5 separate AC units and a heat pump - no issues

3 here, nothing to worry about in my area.

Instead of the, "oh no, can't do", check to see, (you probably don't) if you need it. Just a quick call to planning.

If no, get on with it - if yes, stick an application in and see what happens.

Be positive and positive things happen!

👍

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Jeff

(@jeff)

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Posts: 600

29/07/2022 10:58 pm

I live in a conservation area. No permitted development rights here.

A fairly simple process to get things approved. It is not difficult for us.

Basically boils down to not altering the street scene, although i do need to get permission for even things like putting a shed in my back garden or moving a shed or taking down a shed for example. Some things we won't attempt as we know we would never get permission.

It specifically mentions getting permission for air conditioning for example but i suspect that is mostly about positioning.

In our area we know it's worth checking and getting things in writing as local solicitors ask when properties change hands.

Not a big deal, just something we need to do. Always best to use local builders here who don't get caught out. I saw a house extension knocked down a few months ago for falling foul of the street scene rules, but that is very rare.

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