Posted by: @jeff

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Posted by: @transparent

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Posted by: @batpred

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So many reasons to have data centers as far north as possible

@batpred - please share your sources with us when making such observations !

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This is a situation when NESO and the Regional Energy Strategic Plan (RESP) organisation for the area should be making the decisions...
... rather than the Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Firstly I am not challenging your analysis.

Jeff, challenge here expected from any data centre folk, finance, developers. I am just de-rusting some of my knowledge... This is strategic so the UK is hopefully demonstrating it can now build again. To be honest, electrical power is the last thing I'd personally consider. These folks for example delivered strategically.

Quick googling, to take with a pinch of salt, Sweden has 1.2GW of PPA capacity (the measure of how much power data centres purchased), is  the UK only 1.6GW?  

Posted by: @jeff

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One of the main reasons for enticing the AI DCs to locate in the UK in AI Zones is to hopefully encourage companies and hence well paid jobs into those zones. Particularly companies requiring high capacity, low latency, low jitter connectivity. If the data center is located away from the employment zone the then the whole idea breaks down and it makes it difficult to entice jobs into the UK. 

I can't see a company locating in the UK to use an AI Data Center in Bude. It is too far away from high tech employment areas with the biggest potential for new high tech jobs. 

..

Here is the application process

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-growth-zones/ai-growth-zones-open-for-applications.  

Perhaps encourage the local authority to apply? 

You make lots of good points. The uk does have under utilised talent that could fill these  

Technically I cannot comment if low latency is an objective constraint. But is that a critical success factor when personal realities are being shaped by the same players?

And by latency we mean how many nanoseconds it takes from someone touching their mobile screen, the data centre kit doing its stuff and whatever device gives the response or feedback doing so.  

Our local borough is very much ahead of the game, I heard the race started 4 or 5 years ago. Those speed dials now point to gov! Local folk oppose but never transparently, not sure if it is about money for paperwork.. But the leafletting seems to have stopped which can only be a good sign.

Posted by: @jeff

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You can tinker on the edges  and try and influence some things but the strategy is now set and delivery is underway? 

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you may be able to change the course of the current government 😊

Absolutely clear to me that the differential electricity pricing debate is closed.

Yes the location of Data centres would be driven by factors like new services if the gov planners have their way. The UK has a lot  going for it. But the cynic in me wonders if other factors like the global political acting drivers, and where the folk flying in and out (to sort out investments) want to network around, etc are relevant. 

Caveat is I did not consider any finance around this.    

I will not even get started on the "influencing gov"... 

Posted by: @transparent

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It doesn't matter where are are on the fibre-optic cables, provided you also have sufficient electricity to operate.

Not quite true. For financial market transactions, proximity matters. Even nanoseconds of extra latency can make a difference and siting of servers for trading purposes will be influenced by this. Whether that’s a significant factor for choice of dara centre sites in general is a different question but I doubt it’s without a link somewhere. 

Yes, I'm aware of the financial sector using co-location within the City in order to avoid the delay of going out to the internet and back again.

However Bude is a good 250 miles from London, even if there was a straight-line fibre link.

If you're trading with the NY Stock Exchange, you gain an advantage of 1.4mS
That's an appreciable number of trades you can complete before your colleagues realise where you are!

Posted by: @batpred

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Yes the location of Data centres would be driven by factors like new services if the gov planners have their way.

I don't think government has come out smelling of roses with its approach to Net Zero, data centres or AI.

The Energy Act (Nov 2023) has allocated strategy should be placed with NESO, who actually understand the required science.
Government is to decide policy;
and Ofgem is concerned with regulation.

Since NESO is open to members of the public being involved with strategy for electricity, gas, heat-network and (eventually) transport, via the RESPs
then it's up to us to seize the initiative.

Posted by: @batpred

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Sweden has 1.2GW of PPA capacity (the measure of how much power data centres purchased), is  the UK only 1.6GW?

The term PPA usually refers to a Power Purchase Agreement between a commercial energy supplier and a Generation/Storage company.

Thus if OVO were to have a 1.2GW PPA with Vattenfall, and that could be satisfied for a half-hour block using their offshore wind farms,
that's going to be cheaper than OVO trying to bid for 1.2GW via the Elexon electricity wholesale market.

It may well be the case that data centres are negotiating their own PPAs.
But those contracts will be confidential, and I'm unsure how we can assess the size of the market based only on what their press-releases state.

... unless Jeff knows how of course.

@transparent

As for AI, the previous government allocated the AI Innovation and Research Centre to the Bristol & Bath Science Park, close to the M4.
The location was already the National Composites Centre, run by Bristol University.

Due to "political oversight", they forgot to check if there was sufficient electricity available.

There wasn't.  And within the month, Bristol was asking for the tiny local substation (500kW I believe) to be upgraded.
NGED politely reminded them that substation transformer upgrades also require thick copper wires to supply them.

[…]

I'm sorely tempted to show you the electricity supply map for the immediate area, and the large label "Temporary Supply",
but it's a high security area and I won't compromise that.

Er... they located it there because of the expertise, long research background and a thousand other things. The Bristol Centre for Supercomputing is a fundamental part of Bristol University, it wasn't a whim. I know people in Devon who work there. Plus Exeter University is a part of it. 

Plus it has a brand new  5MW grid connection and a newly constructed HV substation. There's plans for 2 community wind turbines too 

National Grid was bragging about it. The grid connections aren't temporary. 

It's not just a 'data centre' (data centres don't actually provide much local employment after construction) it's a centre of expertise, invention and education. Places like that need more than grids, they need efficient transport networks, housing and so on. 

This isn't being paid for by energy consumers - it received government tech grant funding plus massive funding from Hewlett Packard. It's a business as much as it is a research and innovation centre.  

Posted by: @lucia

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This isn't being paid for by energy consumers

I was referring to the required grid upgrades,
and the 'government investment' of £225m

The articled you referenced @lucia is from this summer (July 2025)

The realisation that someone hadn't checked the then-available power to the site was back in 2023.
On the mapping tool I can now see the four 11kV feeds which go to the Emmerson Green Composites site,
and some very comprehensive 11kV earthing(!), which you wouldn't normally expect to find.

There's still more work to do in that area... hence temporary supplies,

... and I'd also have expected to see a dedicated Storage Battery.

There's a few things to say but I have work to do. Plus this thread has become a bit too long and unwieldy. Sadly. 

However, chancellors don't really 'choose' data centre locations. 

These things are done by a conglomeration of highly paid consultants, the MOD (where necessary), general policy directions and numerous other inputs, including lobbyists over time. Rachel From Accounts just gets to make the big noise and (with the Treasury up her behind) sign off the cheques. 

The so-called "Europe’s Silicon Valley” between Oxford and Cambridge is a classic location for all things 'security' (remember Bletchley Park?). Plus the two principal universities. Spooksville!

Data centres physically store data on servers (not to be confused with computing in general). This ranges from the trivial - Facebook's crap stored in Umea, Sweden (literally all your baby pix and TikTok videos) to the humongous amount of data being hoovered up by the police roll out of facial recognition, border control, NHS data, the government's horrendous ID card dreams and so on. All of which will ultimately be cross-referenced. 

So there's lots of different uses for data storage but the odds are the Ox/Cambridge location will have big security inputs and not only research or random business data. 

Y'all got way too much time on your hands... 🫢😂

Posted by: @lucia

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The so-called "Europe’s Silicon Valley” between Oxford and Cambridge is a classic location for all things 'security' (remember Bletchley Park?)

Quite.

And who do you think owns those majestic antennae at Bude in my earlier picture?

... coz I'm going to suggest it's not an art installation by the Parish Council.

Moreover, the adjacent NW quarter of Devon is so sparsely populated that everyone in the area knows all the inhabitants of their village, and
all the surrounding ones too.

Trying doing espionage 'round those parts, and they'll sit you down for a cream-tea with a pitch-fork prodded at your chest 'til the local bobby turns up.

Posted by: @lucia

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... the odds are the Ox/Cambridge location will have big security inputs

Yes, I realise that Oxford and Cambridge Universities have an enviable record for producing more spies than Britain has ever actually needed(!)
but I don't think Torridge is contemplating a competition.

No one has ever succeeded in making a quick getaway from that area.

There's only one A-road and that'll still take you an hour to reach Barnstaple railway station.

It's just such a waste to have so much electricity in area with no-one who can use it.

Posted by: @lucia

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Data centres physically store data on servers (not to be confused with computing in general). This ranges from the trivial - Facebook's crap stored in Umea, Sweden (literally all your baby pix and TikTok videos) to the humongous amount of data being hoovered up by the police roll out of facial recognition, border control, NHS data, the government's horrendous ID card dreams and so on. All of which will ultimately be cross-referenced. 

Which I suppose raises the ancillary question of why, following Schrems 2 that the UK spent squillons hosting all their Gov data in AWS UK West 2,  did HMRC and many other UK Gov services go off today when AWS US East 1 had a little lie down? 

@abernyte   Which I suppose raises the ancillary question of why, following Schrems 2 that the UK spent squillons hosting all their Gov data in AWS UK West 2,  did HMRC and many other UK Gov services go off today when AWS US East 1 had a little lie down? 

Lol.. I nearly mentioned that then controlled myself. I think HMRC took a hit as did Lloyds and numerous others.

As for your 'why' question... oh boy, what some call the 'Lanyard Class' - I think revolving doors are absolutely key plus metaphorical palm greasing and power & influence - it's cross-party, think Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, Rishi Sunak etc., and what they did after their parliamentary positions.

Since 2021, Oracle founder Larry Ellison’s personal foundation – the Larry Ellison Foundation – has donated or pledged at least £257m to the Tony Blair Institute.  Guess who has been lobbying hard for digital IDs.... 

Look at the spectacle of the last State visit by Señor Trump and who was present. [🤦🏻‍♀️]

There's a very good book called Vassal State by Angus Hanton that spells out in grim detail the extent that US corporations own and control the British economy (and pay minimal tax).

Meanwhile, have a little graphic:

 £416 of the average bill of £1,719 was taken as pre-tax profits by the major electricity generators, networks and household suppliers last year. [Guardian news based on Ofgem data]