So many reasons to have data centers as far north as possible
@batpred - please share your sources with us when making such observations !
I'll suggest that the best location for data centres in UK is where there is not only surplus electricity generation, but also plenty of data. 😀
Have a look at these two maps:
The first shows the submarine data cables landing-points. 25% of global internet traffic passes through Bude in NE Cornwall
The second map shows the location of Alverdiscott, which is the most over-saturated Grid Supply Point in England, and Pyworthy BSP, which has the greatest capacity constraints on the 132kV (top) level of the Distribution grid.
Both of these locations are in the high-rainfall zone, where the SW prevailing wind off the Atlantic meets the rising ground of Dartmoor and Exmoor.
There's loads of 'free' water for cooling!
This is a situation when NESO and the Regional Energy Strategic Plan (RESP) organisation for the area should be making the decisions... ... rather than the Chancellor of the Exchequer!
To embrace technological advancement, UK PLC needs to evaluate its assets in scientific measurements (Joules and Terabytes) not Pounds Sterling.
@transparent I have a very small part of <0.001% of the Derril Water Solar Park at Pyworthy - I would rather that the CotE was not managing any aspects of the future implementation of the energy produced there.😟 Toodles.
Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.
Derril Water is a particular problem because it connects to the 33kV level at Pyworthy Bulk Supply Point (BSP), along with the other seven solar parks which have spawned around transmission tower 81K138 on the 132kV double circuit.
The 400kV Transmission grid used to run down to Indian Queens near Truro and supplied all of Cornwall.
Of course, most of the flow is now in the other direction due to the quantity of wind & solar generation in Kernow.
The 132kV runs parallel to the Transmission Grid, and was intended to act as the fall-back. In the event of an outage on the 400kV run, or for maintenance work, its double-circuit would allow Cornwall and the western half of Devon to still receive electricity.
Pyworthy BSP was the main connection point for all the NW quarter of Devon. From there the 33kV overhead wires supplied the Primary substations in the rural market towns.
Unfortunately, Pyworthy has become a magnet for all the "let's make some dosh" part of the commercial solar sector.
I've shown only half of the Derril Water solar farm in the map above. The rest of it is just off the map to the west.
I would rather that the CotE was not managing any aspects of the future implementation of the energy produced there.
Are we referring to the Committee on the Environment? or Children on the Edge?
What's the problem I'm not seeing?
I was suggesting that the right people to sort out the over-supply of electricity at Pyworthy would be the RESP for SW England.
The surrounding countryside is sparsely populated by humans, but there is a major wildlife re-introduction centre in the area. For obvious reasons I'm not stating its exact location here, but we are starting to see wildlife becoming re-established which have not been native in England for over a century.
Placing hundreds of acres of solar panels across these hills, only to then discard a high proportion of that generation is an environmental travesty.
That's not naturally an energy-rich area. Electricity has to brought into the Golden Triangle from the far-flung reaches of the British Isles.
The figures in boxes are MW being carried in the 400kV Transmission Grid.
I forgot to comment on the government referring to Silicon Valley.
It should be the highly paid tech jobs, they also want people to pay more attention to AI. The data centres do not employ many people, essentially a warehouse with cabling for electrics and networks. But no parking lot.
In 2023, data centres in the whole of California were consuming 3.7% of US electricity use by data centres. While I cannot vouch for this source, it seems reasonable. The location of planned hungrier data centres may well be different, but impossible to tell hype from plans.
There's one site planned not far from us and the location puzzles me somewhat. But the Trust that owns it is clearly not happy with the greenbelt use. 😉
So many reasons to have data centers as far north as possible
@batpred - please share your sources with us when making such observations !
There will be many factors. Given the urgency for growth, building them where the human conditions are better (less opposition, etc) would be better.
With all the opposition of local folk to the one planned nearby, I read a few sections of the massive planning application, etc to have some view.
The key is that data centres are a very competitive business, some processing can and is moved around, costs need to be kept down. This seems a good overview of what it is about.
They are also generally known for:
- generating lots of heat. Since chips run better and can be run faster when cooler, cooling systems are a big part of getting the best return for the equipment in the data centre.
- when it is cold outside, like in Iceland, just opening the windows cools it. Nothing can be cheaper than that!
- in many cases the cooling systems also use water, and this is a concern often raised. When I googled a bit for the basis I did see it.
- new developments at least in England need to show improvement of biodiversity, so the space used by a data centre is a lot more than the buildings, as they plant trees and whatever else nearby.
This is a situation when NESO and the Regional Energy Strategic Plan (RESP) organisation for the area should be making the decisions... ... rather than the Chancellor of the Exchequer!
the cooling systems also use water, and this is a concern often raised.
Curiously this rarely gets raised with thermal generation plants as a concern.
In a warming world river levels are already under strain. France has had to curtail some nuclear generators in summer because of low water availability.
So many reasons to have data centers as far north as possible
@batpred - please share your sources with us when making such observations !
I'll suggest that the best location for data centres in UK is where there is not only surplus electricity generation, but also plenty of data. 😀
Have a look at these two maps:
The first shows the submarine data cables landing-points. 25% of global internet traffic passes through Bude in NE Cornwall
The second map shows the location of Alverdiscott, which is the most over-saturated Grid Supply Point in England, and Pyworthy BSP, which has the greatest capacity constraints on the 132kV (top) level of the Distribution grid.
Both of these locations are in the high-rainfall zone, where the SW prevailing wind off the Atlantic meets the rising ground of Dartmoor and Exmoor.
There's loads of 'free' water for cooling!
This is a situation when NESO and the Regional Energy Strategic Plan (RESP) organisation for the area should be making the decisions... ... rather than the Chancellor of the Exchequer!
To embrace technological advancement, UK PLC needs to evaluate its assets in scientific measurements (Joules and Terabytes) not Pounds Sterling.
Firstly I am not challenging your analysis.
One of the main reasons for enticing the AI DCs to locate in the UK in AI Zones is to hopefully encourage companies and hence well paid jobs into those zones. Particularly companies requiring high capacity, low latency, low jitter connectivity. If the data center is located away from the employment zone the then the whole idea breaks down and it makes it difficult to entice jobs into the UK.
I can't see a company locating in the UK to use an AI Data Center in Bude. It is too far away from high tech employment areas with the biggest potential for new high tech jobs.
We aren't building AI Data Centers for the capacity to be used overseas. We are trying to create an eco system in the UK so we don't offshore jobs.
The idea breaks down if we try and distribute computing power and jobs across the UK.
In the same way an investment bank in London wouldn't use a data center in Bude for some of its low latency systems, they use DCs closer for some of their processes.
Perhaps for some DCs you could entice them to locate in Bude, but not AI of the sort the government wants to generate jobs. The challenge is DCs are usually co located in areas near high population to ensure they can be supported even though they don't need many people to run. I can't see a scenario of lots of DCs near Bude just to help out the grid saturation. Here is the applicantion process
The challenge I have is that you have lots of great ideas but I am not convinced they will work at scale and the horse has already bolted?
The current government has already officially ruled out zonal pricing at scale, gone for option of network upgrades, launched AI zones, secured investment in AI zones etc etc. You can tinker on the edges and try and influence some things but the strategy is now set and delivery is underway?
Perhaps I am just being glass half empty... you may be able to change the course of the current government 😊
It should be the highly paid tech jobs, they also want people to pay more attention to AI.
Has anyone got objections to highly-paid jobs being created in rural Devon and Cornwall?
As for AI, the previous government allocated the AI Innovation and Research Centre to the Bristol & Bath Science Park, close to the M4. The location was already the National Composites Centre, run by Bristol University.
Due to "political oversight", they forgot to check if there was sufficient electricity available.
There wasn't. And within the month, Bristol was asking for the tiny local substation (500kW I believe) to be upgraded. NGED politely reminded them that substation transformer upgrades also require thick copper wires to supply them. I regret I can't share my source for that because the relevant engineers are still in post.
I'm sorely tempted to show you the electricity supply map for the immediate area, and the large label "Temporary Supply", but it's a high security area and I won't compromise that.
Since the project is tax-payer funded, the costs can simply be allocated to us consumers.
If we're going to keep the cost of electricity in check, then it's vital we locate such energy-hungry super-computers where there's already an abundance of renewable generation.
That northern part of Bristol is substantially powered from the Combined Cycle Gas Turbine (CCGT) plant at Pembroke Docks.
Electricity from there goes to the major Grid Supply Point at Acton Gate, in the constituency of Thornbury and Yate, where the newly-elected MP is Claire Young - now a Member of the Commons Select Committee on Energy.
If you're one of her constituents, please feel free to copy this to her!
PS Jeff managed to post his message (above) whilst I was still drawing the map!
@jeff, you make a good argument. However, one point worth bearing in mind is that many of the transatlantic data connections terminate in Cornwall. Not a big issue on its own but I suspect the combination of proximity to the Internet's backbone combined with the abundant supply of power isn't so trivial, especially if those datacentres intend to service financial industry applications.
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18 x 360W solar panels
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"Semper in excretia; sumus solum profundum variat"
Unlike most government quangos, you can directly contact NESO and the addresses are on the relevant parts of their website. Remember, the majority of staff are highly-experienced engineers. Make sure you have properly constructed any point you wish to make... and provide your source references!
At present anyone can join in with the RESP Forums (training and awareness webinars) if they work in an appropriate position, such as the Energy Officer for a local authority, or they have enough technical understanding to keep up, and a desire/commitment to be involved in future energy strategy.
one point worth bearing in mind is that many of the transatlantic data connections terminate in Cornwall.
It's not just the transatlantic ones either, but also the Africa West Coast route and the Europe-India Gateway.
Any other country with those precious resources would be actively utilising them.
A high proportion of data being processed in the City of London, already ends up being routed through Devon and Cornwall. It doesn't matter where are are on the fibre-optic cables, provided you also have sufficient electricity to operate.
