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How would you rate the design, installation and efficiency of your heat pump system? Poll is created on Nov 06, 2022

  
  
  
  
  
  

[Sticky] Rate the quality of your heat pump design and installation

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(@retrorich)
New Member Member
21 kWhs
Joined: 4 weeks ago
Posts: 1
 

We had our CTC ASHP fitted by our housing association contractors and it was a complete nightmare tbh there were several problems and we ended up after 2 years down the line after a load of visits and false info by contractor who basically didn’t know what they were doing reaching out to the manufacturers CTC who were much better and sorted out the system.
In the end they changed our unvented DHW cylinder it was faulty (noisy coils), a faulty incorrectly fitted ESBE valve, the TRV valves on rads were wrong and new ones fitted, the isolation switch outside was full of water and had been disconnected it needed replacement , the heating pump was set incorrectly and pretty much all of the settings on the control unit were wrong. 
The system is now working a lot better but we have no real way of knowing the scop or how economical it is, or what the flow temperature should be (never saw a heat loss survey)and also we were never shown how to work the system by the contractors. We ended claiming around £600 compensation from them for all the energy it used as it drove us into energy debt.

I have to say once we got intouch with CTC they were really good and Gogeothermal came out to resolve all the issues they were really great.


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Noble Member Contributor
5795 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 900
 

@retrorich It is very worrying that any of this should be necessary though,  having third parties involved to fit and commission heat pumps seems to place an additional barrier between the end user and common sense. When things go wrong (which of course, they never do, do they?!), the enduser finds redress has an additional layer of ‘not me guv’ in the chain to circumnavigate. Good for CTC that they put some effort into sorting it all out eventually - but… NONE OF THIS SHOULD BE NECESSARY IN THE FIRST PLACE! Come on MCS - wake up and do the job you profess to be doing! Regard, Toodles. (Rant over… for now)

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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(@davesoa)
Estimable Member Member
518 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 55
 

Dropped into to a newly opened Energy Support Hub run by volunteers this morning to see what they had to offer. There was already someone in there bemoaning the performance of their heat pump. This is what they told me - as I asked.

Installed 3 years ago, replaced an old boiler that had failed - the house is not on the gas grid.

House F EPC rated, semi detached, 1920's solid brick.

Double glazed over 25 years ago 'but the curtains move when the wind blows'.

Rain comes under the front door.

Had not heard of weather compensation.

Does not know what the temperature flow is (or should be)

The rooms are all different temperatures - did not know what a TRV was or how it worked.

Was not on a heat pump tariff.

Did not have a set back temperature overnight

Had not had a commissioning handover

The company that installed it used subcontractors and no one took overall responsibility for performance

The electrician that did the wiring had never done a heat pump before.

It took 6 to 8 months for completion from day 1.

Therefore guess what? The house is cold and the running costs enormous.

Has now thought that getting a local specialist in to review the system 'might be a good thing.'

And one last thing - all done without out any grant.

Thought I'd share.

 


   
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(@jamespa)
Noble Member Member
4504 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 737
 

Interesting and says a lot about both the industry and the public.

Clearly this person, like many I suspect, takes little or no interest in(or doesn't understand/choose to be understand) heating systems of any kind.  I suspect many are like that.

Clearly also they either take little interest in, or can't afford, insulation, or are renting so either see it as wasted money or aren't permitted to upgrade.  I suspect many are in this position.

The installer didn't do a handover, but if the occupant isn't interested explaining it would be both impossible and pointless.  

But as you imply there are several suspect factors in the installation.

I struggle to see how such a situation, which is likely very common, can be systematically resolved.  Central heating systems are inherently quite complex and if people refuse even to understand a trv, how do you teach them to use them, particularly if there are inherent problems with the circumstances.

This isn't unique to heat pumps, the previous boiler would have suffered also but a heat pump possibly exacerbates an already poor situation.

 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by JamesPa
This post was modified 2 weeks ago by Mars

   
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TechnoGeek
(@technogeek)
Estimable Member Member
515 kWhs
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 56
 

Posted by: @jamespa

Clearly this person, like many I suspect, takes little or no interest in(or doesn't understand/choose to be understand) heating systems of any kind.  I suspect many are like that.

@jamespa  sadly I have come across many a person like this and its frustrating. The same said people are also the ones who complain about the cost of living the loudest when for a small amount of invested time and money, they could improve the situation. For example, 5 years ago I renewed my loft insulation to 300mm at a material cost of £246 for a 5 bedroom house ( luckily I was able to do it myself and save even more ). Within 2 years it had paid for itself ( 3 - 4 years maybe for a contractor installation ) .

Sadly people like that complain they cannot afford it and carry on paying the extra £200 - £300 a year in energy bills, however on the next breath they are telling you they and the family are off for two weeks to Majorca for their holidays! Priorities I guess!


   
Derek M reacted
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(@richard24738)
Trusted Member Member
238 kWhs
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 18
 

Very happy with my heat pump installation in Northants from Clean Spark Renewables Ltd (YourEnergy).

Ecodan 11.2, 250L tank, 25L Buffer, all new rads.

Accomodating, punctual, clean. No complaints at all.

Install 13 April 2024 - 4 Bedroom Brick Detached - Ecodan 11.2kw R32 - 25L Buffer - 250L Dhw - All 16 radiators replaced - Octopus Tracker


   
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(@iantelescope)
Reputable Member Contributor
1477 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 217
 

Heat Pumps ..................What a Sad industry.

 

"Happy with a Heat Pump installation"...............I would wait a wee bit .

I was "Happy " during November 2022............then December came ,  my Heat pump producing Large Rectangular Clouds with spectacular bills!

 

I have , however, been contemplating my experiences with the innumerable  plumbers,  used, or exploited  as "service Engineers " by their  "Installers".

Most of the visiting Plumbers said that they "had No confidence in the Heat Pump Technology itself and would not , themselves, fit a Heat Pump in their own home ".

 

Most Heat Pump servicing seems to consist in "Slagging OFF " everybody else, or , at least finding someone else to blame.....

 

What a Sad industry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


   
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(@richard24738)
Trusted Member Member
238 kWhs
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 18
 

Agree, it's early days and of course not using the heating in anger.

Nevertheless, I do feel confident that all will be well.

I'll let you know!

Install 13 April 2024 - 4 Bedroom Brick Detached - Ecodan 11.2kw R32 - 25L Buffer - 250L Dhw - All 16 radiators replaced - Octopus Tracker


   
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(@jamespa)
Noble Member Member
4504 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 737
 

Posted by: @richard24738

Ecodan 11.2, 250L tank, 25L Buffer, all new rads.

I hope and presume the buffer is plumbed as a 2 port volumiser in the return.  If not you are likely going to want it replumbed. Otherwise it sounds sound.

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by JamesPa

   
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(@richard24738)
Trusted Member Member
238 kWhs
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 18
 

JamesPA: The installers specified the buffer (4 port not a volumiser in the return) and, to be frank, I have seen arguements both for and against.

I will just have to see how it goes.

Anything I should look out for in the MELCloud reports which would indicate an issue?

Install 13 April 2024 - 4 Bedroom Brick Detached - Ecodan 11.2kw R32 - 25L Buffer - 250L Dhw - All 16 radiators replaced - Octopus Tracker


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
Noble Member Contributor
5795 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 900
 

@richard24738 I have a Daikin monobloc 8kW ASHP and when the pipework arrives in the airing cupboard, it first meets with an LLH which I have set using the secondary pump speed to match the flow temperatures within about 0.2 degrees C. Our system usually achieves a COP of 4 plus and sometimes I check and find it has achieved 5.25 or better - so an LLH isn’t always bad news! Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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(@jamespa)
Noble Member Member
4504 kWhs
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 737
 

Posted by: @richard24738

JamesPA: The installers specified the buffer (4 port not a volumiser in the return) and, to be frank, I have seen arguements both for and against.

I will just have to see how it goes.

Anything I should look out for in the MELCloud reports which would indicate an issue?

Measure, if you can, the temperature drop from flow in to flow out.  For every degree you are losing 2-3 PC in efficiency.

Unless you have a secondary heat source or something else odd, there are no arguments 'for' which survive a rigorous analysis asfaik  That doesn't mean it's definitely a problem, just that, unless your install has something unusual about it, it's not a solution to anything that cannot be better solved another way.

Presumably you have 2 pumps one either side of the llh (25l is too small really to be called a buffer)

 


   
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