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Need ASHP advice for old (1882) stable development in SW Scotland - where do I begin?

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 Alan
(@alan22)
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If I get this posted in the right place I'm calling it a win, I'm in SW Scotland. 

I'm nearing the end of an old stable development built in 1882, 300sqm in all, split into two main spaces and a room, this adds to existing house, biggest space is 174sqm, and I'm looking at an ASHP to heat it...I think. 

100mm PIR walls, ceiling and floor, new double glazing etc, will have a 10kw multifuel burner as back up, eventually this space will knock through to existing house which will then be insulted in the same way. 

I got one quote, £17k not including radiators which had me wondering if Elton John was playing during the installation.

I'm very much at the beginning of the ASHP curve, my focus has been getting things finished, I'm after any advice at all really.


   
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(@guthrie)
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Welcome Alan.

My first thought is that getting more quotes, hassle though it can be, would help give a cross bearing on what is likely to work well.  In my case we got 3 and 2 matched closely and we went for one of them and the system is about right physically even if the control isn't as great as it should be.

It does though sound like you have a lot more volume to heat than we do, so a greater cost is not surprising, do you have heat calculations available?

Finally, is the thought that the multifuel burner should be used when it is cold like recently (we had -7 for several nights) or whenever you want a fire?  Because if it covers below say -2, that would help reduce your heat pump needs and cost but means you are comitted to lighting it every time it gets cold, which could be for weeks on end or none depending.  Do you want to have to light it every time it gets cold or would you prefer the ability to light it only when you need it?

 


   
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(@bontwoody)
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@alan22 

Could you post the actual quote Alan? it should have details like heat loss in it. You can attach files to your posts. Have you finished the floors of the stable? are you considering under floor heating?

House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Alan
(@alan22)
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Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 27
Topic starter  

Posted by: @guthrie

Welcome Alan.

My first thought is that getting more quotes, hassle though it can be, would help give a cross bearing on what is likely to work well.  In my case we got 3 and 2 matched closely and we went for one of them and the system is about right physically even if the control isn't as great as it should be.

It does though sound like you have a lot more volume to heat than we do, so a greater cost is not surprising, do you have heat calculations available?

Finally, is the thought that the multifuel burner should be used when it is cold like recently (we had -7 for several nights) or whenever you want a fire?  Because if it covers below say -2, that would help reduce your heat pump needs and cost but means you are comitted to lighting it every time it gets cold, which could be for weeks on end or none depending.  Do you want to have to light it every time it gets cold or would you prefer the ability to light it only when you need it?

 

I think I do have the heat calculations but I'm not there currently, I'll try to find.

I was hoping to use the multifuel burner for particularly cold spells or as a top up if the ASHP needs a bit of help, never had an ASHP so no idea how that will work in the space so belt and braces, I imagine the combination will give me options, I'm hoping the ASHP is cheaper to run than the burner and do most of the heating, if it ends up costing more it's not really worked and I'm back to fossil fuels. 

Should add that my heat has been free for the last decade in that the smaller current part of the house was entirely heated by wood I cut myself, burning anthracite is a recent switch. 

 


   
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 Alan
(@alan22)
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Topic starter  

@bontwoody, will do when I get back and dig it out, if I can that is, I'm struggling with the forum already, I somehow accidentally joined another forum called 'renewable energy hub' just trying to get back to this one, I thought it was the same one!

Floor is down, concrete slab, but not finished, still to be insulated, boarded etc, no space for underfloor heating now as the calculation is now physical levels, when the insulation goes down all the plumbing pipes will be routed to be able to be used from either end of the house, I have a gas boiler in the old end and plan to have an ASHP at the other, plumber reckons I can switch between them if need be by coupling one end and capping the other..that is the plan anyway. 

 

 


   
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 Alan
(@alan22)
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Joined: 4 months ago
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Topic starter  

I screenshotted the key bits, the rest is just the usual contracty fluff, I don't have the heat loss survey. 

Capture 2024 01 20 11 40 36
Capture 2024 01 20 11 40 08

   
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(@bontwoody)
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@alan22 

Morning Alan, well done for getting back to this forum :-). Try and bookmark this page and your browser should save your log in details.

I think an ASHP is definitely the way to go, you have very good insulation levels, so I cant see a problem with heating the space. Having a multifuel burner is a nice accessory and a bit of insurance in very cold weather or power cuts.

The quote isnt very detailed and something that rings alarm bells with me is the addition of a buffer tank. These are to be avoided if at all possible if you want a system that is efficient. There are plenty of threads on this forum if you want to look into them.

I think its essential you get more quotes, If Octopus aren't installing in your area, have a look for installers who are heat geek trained as they tend to know what they are talking about Find a Heat Geek - HeatGeek

I think you should be able to get the price down, the first quote is seldom the best and my brother in law saved several thousand following that advice.

 

Mark

 

House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Alan
(@alan22)
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Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 27
Topic starter  

Cheers, I'm slightly relieved, I priced up the kit in the quote and it came to £5/6k just ordering the first I found on the internet, so struggling to work out what the rest is paying for.

I passed it by my plumber, he's not heat pump certified but he reckoned it would take a couple of days and the only thing stopping him is the experience of predicting how it would function, if I could find an experienced fitter to design the system and commission it...but I appreciate that would never be in their interest. 


   
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(@heacol)
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@alan22 PM me and I will see what I can do, a lot of information needs to be gathered for a satisfactory outcome, it is not as simple as just throwing a boiler in, like, so many here have discovered.

Professional heat pump installer: Technical Director Ultimate Renewables Director at Heacol Ltd


   
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(@bontwoody)
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@alan22 what @heacol is true, but equally it isnt beyond the scope of an enthused diyer with an aptitude for learning. Ive installed two very successfully in my own homes. Given the state of some of the MCS installs, its difficult to imagine doing a worse job. Have a look at Glyn Hudson youtube videos, he is very knowledgeable and has done some very good diy installs.

There are a large amount of savings to be made even if you make the odd mistake and have to replace/redo something

This post was modified 4 months ago by bontwoody

House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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Mars
 Mars
(@editor)
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@bontwoody, did you avoid the LLH in your DIY install?

Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU

Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm: https://myhomefarm.co.uk


   
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(@heacol)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 328
 

@bontwoody I agree, but the fundamentals of design and sizing for best performance requires experience and knowledge. A DIY installation, may work better than most MCS certified installations, but unlikely to work as well as it could. It is not difficult to outperform over 90% of MCS installations, any marginally competent DIY-er can easily achieve that. You must remember, CAPEX is insignificant to OPEX, and even worse if you get it wrong. Paying for the right advice, will pay back many times over.

Professional heat pump installer: Technical Director Ultimate Renewables Director at Heacol Ltd


   
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