New build, ASHP & UFH - advice please
Hi,
I’ve done a lot of reading on this and other websites but can’t quite work out an answer to my new set up. I was hoping to get some help, advice and opinion on my questions if that’s at all possible please.
we are buying a new build home which has the following set up:
- a Daikin ASHP
- underfloor heating throughout the downstairs with each room on a zone, and a thermostat on the wall in each room
- Daikin unvented cylinder
- radiators upstairs on one zone, but only one thermostat in the master bedroom
- electric towel rails in bathrooms and en suites
I’ve seen lots of articles relating to zoning and why it might not be a good idea, but each room downstairs is zoned and the upstairs is on a zone. Is this likely to be less efficient?
Is it worthwhile/sensible to put a digital TRV on each radiator upstairs to be able to control each bedroom individually? For example we may want the nursery warmer than the master bedroom…I know you can do this with manual TRVs but it’s a bit trial and error.
I’ve read that cycling is bad for an ASHP, so do people leave it running 24/7 all year round? Do you turn it off in the summer like you would with a gas boiler?
Can anyone think of anything else I may have missed or need to look out for?
cheers
Richard
Since noone has yet replied, Ill try and add my understanding of the situation. Zoning heat pumps is generally thought to be a mistake as it may cause the system to require higher flow temperautures and thus lower its effiency even though you are heating a bigger volume. I think this probably comes with caveats such as how good the insulation between rooms is. You can certainly play around with keeping zones on permanently.
Generally TRVs are also frowned upon for the above reason and also that they alter the flow volume available to the system, that said I have them and I know others do too.
Cycling reduces the heat pumps efficiency, but it is also normal for the system to periodically switch off (see my system below which has a good COP), however very rapid switching on and off is to be avoided.
Others may disagree with what I have suggested, but its the start of an answer for you.
House-2 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60
Posted by: @sickyHi,
I’ve done a lot of reading on this and other websites but can’t quite work out an answer to my new set up. I was hoping to get some help, advice and opinion on my questions if that’s at all possible please.
we are buying a new build home which has the following set up:
- a Daikin ASHP
- underfloor heating throughout the downstairs with each room on a zone, and a thermostat on the wall in each room
- Daikin unvented cylinder
- radiators upstairs on one zone, but only one thermostat in the master bedroom
- electric towel rails in bathrooms and en suites
I’ve seen lots of articles relating to zoning and why it might not be a good idea, but each room downstairs is zoned and the upstairs is on a zone. Is this likely to be less efficient?
Is it worthwhile/sensible to put a digital TRV on each radiator upstairs to be able to control each bedroom individually? For example we may want the nursery warmer than the master bedroom…I know you can do this with manual TRVs but it’s a bit trial and error.
I’ve read that cycling is bad for an ASHP, so do people leave it running 24/7 all year round? Do you turn it off in the summer like you would with a gas boiler?
Can anyone think of anything else I may have missed or need to look out for?
cheers
Richard
Hi Richard, welcome to the forum.
Having zones with individual room controls may seem desirable and may possibly be a good idea with a gas or oil boiler, but it is unlikely to work efficiently with a heat pump system.
Heat pumps work more efficiently when the temperature of the water coming out, the Leaving Water Temperature (LWT), is as low as possible. Heat emitters (UFH and/or radiators) transfer thermal energy more effectively when the LWT is higher, so the two requirements are at odds with one another.
To try to achieve a reasonable balance between the two, it is often necessary for the installation of larger heat emitters in a heat pump system, which allows for adequate thermal energy transfer to take place whilst operating at a lower LWT.
With a zoned system you are effectively varying the size of the heat emitter capacity, from the smallest system being in operation to the full system being in operation. It is only when the full capacity of the heat emitters is being utilised, that the LWT can be kept at a minimum.
For optimum efficiency of your heat pump system, you should therefore consider operating with all the room thermostats set at a temperature of 1C higher than the desired room temperature, then balance the flow through each UFH loop and each radiator to achieve the desired room temperature. The heat pump should also be set to operate in Weather Compensation (WC) mode, so that it varies the produced LWT to match the heat demand of your home.
Interesting proposals @sicky
I'm wondering why you think you'll need upstairs radiators in addition to ground-level UHF in a new-build house.
Since we normally want to have lower bedroom temperatures, and new-builds should benefit from good insulation, then why isn't it adequate to allow the heat to rise from below?
Is yours an 'upside down' house, perhaps?
There is a case for wanting heating within an upstairs bathroom (& en-suite), however.
When adding an en-suite within an extension, I placed UFH pipes beneath the floor and through a 'towel' radiator.
To maximise the radiating heat-surface area, I not only had UFH loops below the tiled floor, but also beneath a ceramic walk-in shower tray 🙂
The warm floor surface works well.
But it obviously takes longer to dry towels when the water temperature is below 45°C
The two solutions I've used are:
- allow extra space to hang towels so that they aren't folded across the heated rail
- ensure that there's adequate ventilation to remove the humid air (I have a whole-house MVHR system, which does the job)
Save energy... recycle electrons!
-
ASHP install contract and BUS grant money
6 days ago
-
High air source heat pump running costs – Vaillant AroTherm Plus
1 week ago
-
Savings - using Weather Compensation & Time of Use Tariffs
2 weeks ago
-
Heat Pump starting current
1 month ago
-
Running my new Nibe ASHP efficiently
1 month ago
- 21 Forums
- 1,962 Topics
- 42.6 K Posts
- 69 Online
- 2,275 Members
Join Us!
Heat Pump Dramas?
Thinking about installing a heat pump but unsure where to start? Already have one but it’s not performing as expected? Or are you locked in a frustrating dispute with an installer or manufacturer? We’re here to help.
✅ Pre-Installation Planning
✅ Post-Installation Troubleshooting
✅ Performance Optimisation
✅ Complaint Support (Manufacturer & Installer)
Latest Posts
-
RE: What is the best strategy for operating a very oversized heat pump?
@jamespa Samsung has it 'Quiet mode' and I use it a ...
By IRMartini , 3 minutes ago
-
RE: Setback savings - fact or fiction?
We certainly are, and that's why I am here too. But tha...
By cathodeRay , 10 minutes ago
-
RE: Newbie out of her depth – Samsung AE120RXYDEG 12kW heat pump
No need for apologies, just cautioning about getting to...
By JamesPa , 16 minutes ago
-
RE: Samsung Gen 7 R290 12kW is not behaving how I expected
Definitely its in the 20xx FSVs. Conversely it may be...
By JamesPa , 18 minutes ago
-
RE: Towel rails. An unexpected final hurdle
We have both Normal Rad for heating the room and then a...
By IRMartini , 2 hours ago
-
RE: Heat Pump Sizing & Installation Costs
Perhaps useful to have installed date too? To get conte...
By Tim441 , 4 hours ago
-
RE: SolarPV tables / online calculator
I'd be interested what others find whilst using that we...
By Majordennisbloodnok , 6 hours ago
-
Volumisers in Heat Pump Systems: Does Placement Matter?
The debate over buffer tanks in heat pump systems has b...
By Mars , 7 hours ago
-
RE: F.788 Building circuit pump reports internal fault - Vaillant Arotherm
Guess I have to wait for engineer visit. I really hope ...
By jeegnesh , 18 hours ago
-
RE: Act now to defer the UK road tax increase on EVs
@majordennisbloodnok Damn right sir. my attempt at iron...
By Jancold , 21 hours ago
-
RE: ASHP and heating issues in new build house
That’s good gives you more capacity. It made me think, ...
By Terry1812 , 22 hours ago
-
RE: Seewet manhole cover within r290 exclusion zone
Thanks! I asked Vaillant, and they say I should be fi...
By dbrb2 , 1 day ago
-
Looking for the Grant Aerona 3 setting to turn off completely at 20 OAT
I'm running my Aerona 3 on WC and the 'warm end of that...
By damonc , 1 day ago
-
RE: Do I just go with the lowest quote for my heat pump?
So after signing in Sept in two weeks the install may s...
By Jancold , 1 day ago
-
RE: Victorian Semi Retrofit / Extension ASHP and UFH Advice
When you are renovating is always a good time, as it ma...
By JamesPa , 1 day ago
-
RE: Just one room not reaching desired temperature
Looks like this issue is now resolved. Aira installed a...
By ChandyKris , 1 day ago
-
There have been several people on the OpenEnergyMonitor...
By RobS , 2 days ago
-
RE: Say hello and introduce yourself
Good point @jamespa But that probably strengthens @ch...
By Transparent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Visit a Heat Pump sessions.
Congratulations @toodles, that's a fantastic result. We...
By Old_Scientist , 2 days ago
Latest Topics
-
Heat Pump Sizing & Installation Costs
By Mars 6 hours ago
-
Volumisers in Heat Pump Systems: Does Placement Matter?
By Mars 7 hours ago
-
SolarPV tables / online calculator
By MichelleC 14 hours ago
-
By Toodles 2 days ago