Hitachi Yutaki M efficient operation
So i think i have narrowed it down without however knowing the solution. Buffer creates a loop. Hp provides the required water temp to the buffer but somehow the energy is not diverted to the ufh but returns to the hp, hence the low dt and the reduced temp at the manifolds compared to the outlet reading of the hp. Does this means that there is unbalanced flow between the primary circuit (hp and buffer) and secondary circuit (buffer and manifolds)? The circulating pump in the first circuit is adjustable but the second is not
Posted by: @iraknicDoes this means that there is unbalanced flow between the primary circuit (hp and buffer) and secondary circuit (buffer and manifolds)? The circulating pump in the first circuit is adjustable but the second is not
Yes, almost certainly.
I dont know if the HP can control the buffer, some can. If the buffer has two temperature sensors at different heights then its possible in principle to use this information modulate the speed of one or other pump so that on average the rates are the same (which is ideally what you want). It would be worth looking at the HP manual and the buffer in case it can do this.
Otherwise you are down to adjusting the pump rates. The HP might adjust the primary pump to suit its needs. If it does so and unless the HP does feature buffer management, Id be loathe to touch this. That said there is generally no harm in turning the primary up, HPs complain about low flow (because its not enough to take the heat away) more than about high flow.
Im surprised that there is no adjustment on the secondary pump, many have three settings.
Having the primary a bit faster than the secondary will tend to force the thermocline (barrier between 'hot' and cold' water, assuming its stratified) down the tank, which means that the feed to the emitters should be at the same temperature as the feed from the heat pump, thus minimising the sacrifice in efficiency which would occur if the feet to emitters is lower temp than the feed from the heat pump. Obviously this will cause a little bit of recycling through the heat pump, but its better so far as I understand these matters than pushing the thermocline to the top which is what happens if the primary is slower than the secondary.
Do you know why the buffer is fitted? Generally they are a bad idea in heat pump systems, albeit that many installers put them in because its pretty much guaranteed to reduce callouts (by masking problems).
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@iraknic how are you monitoring your UFH delta T?
Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU
From Zero to Heat Pump Hero: https://amzn.to/4bWkPFb
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
@jamespa the buffer was fitted to increase water in the system due to the existence of zones. @editor
I am measuring the temps at the manifold using an IR thermometer. In my case it seems that the primary water pump is slower than the secondary (after the buffer) one? Can the secondary flow be reduced by manually decreasing ufh flow at the manifolds?
Posted by: @iraknicCan the secondary flow be reduced by manually decreasing ufh flow at the manifolds?
Yes. Its the same as turning down the lockshield on a radiator
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
i attach the setup of the buffer, highlighting the return lines and the specs of the water pump that is placed after the buffer. I thought of closing a bit of the outlet and return valves of the left side of the buffer (to and from) the manifolds and increase the flow of the primary pump (from hp to the buffer) to see what happens
@iraknic Please note, I don’t have any experience at all (diddly squat) of UFH plumbing but if a circuit has both send and return valves, it is probably only necessary and better to just constrict the flow to the circuit and leave the return without any restriction. I may be talking through the wrong orifice of course! Regards, Toodles.
Toodles, he heats his home with cold draughts and cooks his food with magnets.
Posted by: @iraknicA reason i believe is causing a low delta-t is the waterflow that is too high
I also tried lowering the internal waterpump speed but have not found yet how to do that. The setting in the installer section of the controller did have a deltaT setting and a HP ON deltaT setting I changed both to the same increase but the waterpump speed still is 100%
How did you try changing the deltaT?
I have a modbus gateway from which I can extract most relevant information. No real cycle information to be found though. Once can monitor and deduce it sure.
- 26 Forums
- 2,117 Topics
- 46.5 K Posts
- 61 Online
- 4,521 Members
Join Us!
Latest Posts
-
@jamespa it was the classic autocomplete with my iPad t...
By Mars , 14 minutes ago
-
RE: Replacing Refrigerant on Mitsubishi Heat Pump
So the manual is correct and looks fine to me, to abbre...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 4 hours ago
-
RE: Heat Pump Books For Beginners – Bodge Buster & From Zero To Heat Pump Hero
Hi I, like others, avoid Amazon for ethical reasons....
By Topher , 5 hours ago
-
RE: Benefits of an extra horizontal loop for GSHP
I would deffo install an additional slinky run, especia...
By Transparent , 5 hours ago
-
RE: Say hello and introduce yourself
@editor fab - thanks Mars, and keep up the great work o...
By normpang , 6 hours ago
-
RE: Compressor and Evaporator Stratification
@trebor12345 So I think the 1st zigzag section shows so...
By ASHP-BOBBA , 21 hours ago
-
RE: Is this just haze or something more?
@majordennisbloodnok I was giving a talk to primary sch...
By Toodles , 1 day ago
-
RE: Tesla Powerwall – More of a ‘Luxury’ Than an ROI Winner!
We had our Tesla Powerwall 3 (and Gateway) installed ea...
By Old_Scientist , 1 day ago
-
Indeed. With a battery its presumably the battery con...
By JamesPa , 1 day ago
-
RE: No-code, plug-and-play monitoring for your heat pump
To update an ESP device using ESPHome in Home Assistant...
By Grantmethestrength , 2 days ago
-
RE: The good, the bad and the not that great – my heat pump installation
Said I would pop back with a update. Only Mr Jesus h...
By Burtis , 5 days ago
-
RE: Buffers, hot water and cooling
Thats presumably heat pump DT, what about radiator DT a...
By JamesPa , 5 days ago
-
RE: Who's your electricity provider and what's your tariff?
@chandykris Exactly the same here. We now have 13.5kWh ...
By Old_Scientist , 5 days ago
-
RE: Wood burner with ASHP - direct air?
This depends on the size of your wood burner and size/t...
By Lucia , 6 days ago
-
RE: Difficult positioning of air source heat pump
@rikiarn It's a not a buffer it's a volumiser which is ...
By Lucia , 6 days ago
-
RE: Is your heat pump insured?
To make things clear, lots of insurance companies cover...
By Lucia , 6 days ago
-
RE: Boxt Heat Pump Installation Experience
@adrian any updates since installation? How is it perfo...
By Ashfp , 6 days ago
-
@seatonian got your email. Will connect you with a reco...
By Mars , 1 week ago
-
@downfield and @toddles, this isn’t in the settings cur...
By Mars , 1 week ago
-
RE: Homely launched for Grant Aerona ASHP control
I haven't bought the Aerona Smart Controller (£700!) bu...
By Prunus , 1 week ago