@majordennisbloodnok Indeed! 👍 Toodles.

@majordennisbloodnok I cannot comprehend their logic for all of the reasons you highlight.

It has also proved invaluable for us to be able to challenge our installers that their design temp of our system was not being achieved. When the max flow temp was set at 45, and the OAT was minus 2, you could see the indoor temp gradually drop via the dashboard graphs which we could screenshot. This has resulted in our installers accepting that they had mis sold this element of our installation, documenting an accurate and feasible design temp on our MCS certificate of a few degrees higher, upgrading an additional radiator and offering financial compensation as a result. Prior to figuring out the workaround to accessing the performance data I was in discussions with them to actually remove it and put something in that did allow me to see this information as I was so concerned that I couldn't see any of it, or certainly not easily anyway- the native Midea controls being so poor. 

It allows me to see how often the unit is cycling. It also allows me not to be tied to one installer if they cease trading, or for whatever reason I no longer want them to service/diagnose any issues (definitely applicable in our case).

I get that some customers wouldn't have any interest in it, but what is clear is there is a significant proportion who do, and it leaves a bad taste that they (and installers recommending the controls) want to keep their customers in the dark. On the basis of this response and their turnaround in customer focused support I would no longer recommend it.

Posted by: @benson

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I get that some customers wouldn't have any interest in it, but what is clear is there is a significant proportion who do, and it leaves a bad taste that they (and installers recommending the controls) want to keep their customers in the dark. On the basis of this response and their turnaround in customer focused support I would no longer recommend it.

Just to be clear, is 'it' in this case 'Homely' (if so that is a major disappointment!).

Without Homely some of the heat pumps that have less sophisticated controls (including quite a few, but not all, of the ones from the Far East) must surely be regarded as 'iffy' for any case where the homeowner expects a simple interface (ie the vast majority of ordinary use cases)   

In fact one might argue that any heat pump where the customer cant simply turn a dial (or the digital equivalent) and as a result efficiently vary the house temperature should be in this 'iffy' category  if Homely can no longer be recommended.  By efficiently I mean that, under the hood, the 'dial' should in fact cause the weather compensation curve to shift, rather than implement some on/off control logic.

That narrows the choice quite considerably.

Maybe the (principally but not exclusively European) manufacturers who, for some years, have had to deal with weather compensation on boilers and have thus developed a user-friendly interface to WC aimed at the end user do actually have a selling point as we progress beyond the 'early adopter nerd' market for heat pumps. 

Posted by: @jamespa

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In fact one might argue that any heat pump where the customer cant simply turn a dial (or the digital equivalent) and as a result efficiently vary the house temperature should be in this 'iffy' category  if Homely can no longer be recommended.  

Homely is absolutely recommended for this. For those heat pumps with clunky controls, such as my Grant, Homely is transformational. I understand why the lack of user-facing detailed data might be disappointing for some, and it would be for me if I didn’t have it, but I would suggest that only a small percentage of the mass market would care. The benefits are still substantial and Homely is still an excellent and cost-effective product.

@jamespa yes I was referring to Homely.

I've grown to quite like the controls and what they offer- as you say the options are rather limited for certain makes. I can't get on board with their operating model for reasons stated.

Interestingly Clivet are, or at least were, pushing the passiv controls with their ASHPs and were offering them for free to Clivet installers up until the end of last month. I suspect it will be broadly similar though in terms of what information is readily accessible to the end user.

Perhaps something like open energy monitor can be installed in conjunction with homely etc?

Posted by: @grahaml

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Posted by: @jamespa

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In fact one might argue that any heat pump where the customer cant simply turn a dial (or the digital equivalent) and as a result efficiently vary the house temperature should be in this 'iffy' category  if Homely can no longer be recommended.  

Homely is absolutely recommended for this. For those heat pumps with clunky controls, such as my Grant, Homely is transformational. I understand why the lack of user-facing detailed data might be disappointing for some, and it would be for me if I didn’t have it, but I would suggest that only a small percentage of the mass market would care. The benefits are still substantial and Homely is still an excellent and cost-effective product.

 

 

That's an interesting and very useful perspective. 

To boil it down to its essentials (and hopefully stimulate some debate) homely remains good (where the native heat pump controller has insufficient functionality) for non geeks (IE the majority). 

For geeks it may be less good or even no good,  but they have alternatives.