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Air source heat pumps and noise

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Transparent
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I realise that this topic is about noise issues, but I really can't let this go without commenting on the proximity of that LG unit to the stone wall behind it! 😣 

Restricted air flow isn't going to help with efficiency.

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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(@tim441)
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@transparent thanks for the concern! My understanding is that standard guidance is around 300mm space behind with some quoting as little as 200mm

there is actually 360mm behind my LG in the video - its just an optical illusion in the video!

 

Listed Grade 2 building with large modern extension.
LG Therma V 16kw ASHP
Underfloor heating + Rads
8kw pv solar
3 x 8.2kw GivEnergy batteries
1 x GivEnergy Gen1 hybrid 5.0kw inverter
Manual changeover EPS


   
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(@jamespa)
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Interesting and potentially very useful videos.  It would be good to know (roughly) the OAT at which these are recorded and/or the output power at the time, because otherwise they are open to the criticism that they are deliberately taken when the heat pump isn't working hard. 

My LPA is still telling me I need to achieve a noise level of 25dBA and their Green party (!) Executive member in charge of planning has accused me of proposing to install a 'noisy' heat pump (the ones I am considering are all QuietMark certified!).  I would really love to have some videos of this kind I could produce to show the member in question what nonsense they are talking.


   
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Mars
 Mars
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In addition to the proximity of the "things" near the heat pump that potentially box it in, the most important aspect is probably breathing space and a channel where air can move and be replaced easily to replenish 'warm' air.

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Mars
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@jamespa, our heat pump, the one from Global Energy Systems was running at max, and I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest of the pumps were filmed with temperatures under 5C which suggests that they weren't idling and working relatively hard.

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Transparent
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Posted by: @jamespa

My LPA is still telling me I need to achieve a noise level of 25dBA

At what distance?
How far from the boundary?

Details matter!

 

Posted by: @jamespa

their Green party (!) Executive member in charge of planning has accused me of proposing to install a 'noisy' heat pump

I think it's extremely difficult for elected councillors to learn and understand what's required for energy-related applications.

Moreover, the existing planning regulations for energy are a mish-mash, often flying in the face of common sense.

For example, do you realise that the EREC G98 and G99 standards for connection of energy-related equipment to the grid contain criteria for safety and compliance with parameters (voltage, current, frequency etc), but there are no checks on security.

I could design an EV charger with the capability to receive commands across the internet, and create firmware which allows those chargers to be used for ransomware attacks.
"Pay up or you can't charge your EV!"

My own LPA Councillors often make contact to ask about applications which contain mystifying specifications.
More often I then read the applicant's documents only to discover a number of issues which they've omitted or sought to obscure.
How the heck would an elected councillor be expected to realise that a piece of information is missing?!

Save energy... recycle electrons!


   
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(@jamespa)
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Posted by: @editor

@jamespa, our heat pump, the one from Global Energy Systems was running at max, and I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest of the pumps were filmed with temperatures under 5C which suggests that they weren't idling and working relatively hard.

Interesting and useful thanks.

I do think its important to be as certain as possible if the video is to be used as 'evidence', and apologise I didn't think to say so earlier when I first read this thread (which was more or less wen it was launched). 

People believe what they want to believe and bend evidence to suit their desired outcome, so the anti-heat pump lobby (including it appears, but by no means limited to, my Green-party run District Council) will use any uncertainty to throw doubt on claims made that don't fit their pre-determined outcome.

I have been wondering for some time if there is an easy way to simulate a given noise level, for demonstration purposes.  A heat pump is a very expensive  and not terribly portable piece of kit for producing a noise.  If HP manufacturers produced noise simulators somehow that would be a much more practical way to make the case.

 

This post was modified 4 months ago 3 times by JamesPa

   
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Posted by: @jamespa
Posted by: @jamespa

My LPA is still telling me I need to achieve a noise level of 25dBA

 

 

At what distance?
How far from the boundary?

Details matter!

 

At the most affected assessment point on the neighbours property.  Thats 22dB lower than the PD rules permit and leads to a predicted interior noise level of 10dB(A) (according to the methodology in BS8233) which is 20dB lower than that deemed 'desirable' (in sleeping quarters at night) according to BS 8233

 

Posted by: @transparent

I think it's extremely difficult for elected councillors to learn and understand what's required for energy-related applications.

...

How the heck would an elected councillor be expected to realise that a piece of information is missing?!

They wouldn't and they shouldn't have to, that's why Councils have paid officers so that someone is employed to understand the technical detail.  However because the Government has capped Council tax for the past 10 years plus at a rate less than inflation and there are only limited other sources of income, its increasingly difficult to recruit or train officers with the right skills (and keep those skills up to date). 

For planning this shouldn't  be a problem because planning application fees are charged, however these only went up in Dec 2023 and prior to that were last raised only in 2018 and 2012.  I think they are to be index linked going forward which makes sense.  Except that the fees are set nationally by the Government and for authorities close to London the market cost of staff is much higher.  Basically they can make a lot more working for developers than working for Councils.  Im not saying that they aren't good, many are, but penny-pinching on staff does have an effect.

This post was modified 4 months ago 3 times by JamesPa

   
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One is tempted to request a slot to address the Planning Committee...
... and then do so at 25dBA.

The Chair will no doubt ask you to speak up 😎 

This post was modified 4 months ago by Transparent

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Marzipan71
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Posted by: @editor

@jamespa, our heat pump, the one from Global Energy Systems was running at max, and I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest of the pumps were filmed with temperatures under 5C which suggests that they weren't idling and working relatively hard.

 

Just for the tape my OAT in Avigliano Umbro is given (by www.visualcrossing.com/weather/weather-data-services) as 6C at 9am on 28/12, with a 'feels like' of 4.6C. ASHP was working flat out at that point.

 


   
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(@tim441)
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@editor I think my LG pump was filmed on a mild day - 17th Dec at 56db

just popped out today and see temp is 3 deg and 62db. I don't think it is running absolutely flat out so max might be around 65db

i'll try to monitor over next day or 2 and will post if anything significant to add.

LG Therma V 16KW. Installed 2020

This post was modified 4 months ago by Tim441

Listed Grade 2 building with large modern extension.
LG Therma V 16kw ASHP
Underfloor heating + Rads
8kw pv solar
3 x 8.2kw GivEnergy batteries
1 x GivEnergy Gen1 hybrid 5.0kw inverter
Manual changeover EPS


   
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(@derek-m)
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Posted by: @tim441

@editor I think my LG pump was filmed on a mild day - 17th Dec at 56db

just popped out today and see temp is 3 deg and 62db. I don't think it is running absolutely flat out so max might be around 65db

i'll try to monitor over next day or 2 and will post if anything significant to add.

LG Therma V 16KW. Installed 2020

To be a little more systematic, I think the noise measurements should, if possible, to taken at a fixed distance, and possibly specified locations, in relation to the front of the ASHP.

Other factors such as OAT, heat pump loading, wind direction and speed, along with background noise levels should also be considered.

 


   
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