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Advice / Experience Sought for controlling a Samsung Gen 6 ASHP

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(@jonbennell)
Active Member Member
47 kWhs
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Hi all,

At the risk of opening a new tread that is quite similar to someone else within the week, I hope you can help shed some light on this matter.

Last week I had my entire system redesigned and replumbed from a glycol filled primary circuit, through a heat plate exchanger, zoned in two (ground floor UFH and combined 1F & 2F radiators) with a 400 litre DHW cylinder. The initial installation was rushed to meet the RHI deadline and was poorly designed and not properly commissioned. I was using Nest as my set point and scheduling controller for the central heating. We ambled on in this state for best part of 18 months, SCOP was unsurprisingly poor and our all replaced radiators were undersized, until the NICEIC agreed to a site inspection and found a suitably long list of defects that needed addressing.

I paid a relatively local Heat Geek (huge thanks to Mark at JMR Heating and Energy) to assess the above before the NICEIC agreed to visit and had an independent heat loss survey conducted. Fortunately my ASHP doesn't appear to be incorrectly sized, despite the installers energy assessor setting all our 1st and 2nd floor ceiling heights at 1 metre (we're not Hobbits!)

Based on my wishes, I now have this:

Plumbing

  • Single open loop circulation, antifreeze valves with two pumps (central heating / DHW circuit pump & smaller UFH pump).
  • 300 litre cylinder.
  • 10 further upsized radiators spread across 1st and 2nd floors (exceed the Heat Geek heat loss survey). Design temp was still 45C @ -2C but I think with these enlarged emitters, we should be able to get down to 40C @ -2C.
  • No buffer or volumizer due to having over 200 litres in the radiators, UFH pipes & circuits connected together in one circulation loop.

Equipment:

  • Samsung AE120RXYDEG/EU 12kW Heat Pump.
  • Samsung MIM-E03CN Control Kit.
  • Samsung MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller.
  • Samsung MIM-H04EN WiFi Kit 2.0*.

Now that I've got this preamble out of the way, part of my wish in simplifying the whole system was to use the manufacturers controls (often cited as the best advice in the reading I've done in the past).

The MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller that is wired into the MIM-E03CN Control Kit allows you to set both DHW temperature and set a schedule (I aim to heat the water at 1pm where the outside ambient temperature is typically warmest during the day). It appears that once you change the behaviour of the system to use the thermostat within the MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller, you can set a central heating set point and switch it on or off. No scheduling or set back temperature options.

I had hoped that adding the MIM-H04EN WiFi Kit would open up some more options, such as remotely adjusting set points and temperatures (and setting basics like Holiday Mode), I've been struggling to get the Samsung SmartThings App to detect and add the interface (despite being connected directly to it in AP mode). Documented functionality on using this WiFi kit is next to non existent and Samsung have yet to respond to a ticket that I opened last week.

My main questions are:

  • Does the included Samsung MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller make a suitable stand alone controller (albeit without the ability to set a heating schedule with set backs)?
  • Has anyone else had success using the Samsung MIM-H04EN WiFi Kit 2.0? If so, how did you get it into SmartThings and what other control do you gain?

My goal is to still have the simplest control system with some degree of remote override ability and avoid short cycling from a control system that isn't well paired with an ASHP. Can I ask what you'd do in my position. Any other views on my efforts are welcome.

Thanks for getting this far!

Jon


   
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(@iancalderbank)
Noble Member Contributor
3640 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 644
 

Posted by: @jonbennell

Now that I've got this preamble out of the way, part of my wish in simplifying the whole system was to use the manufacturers controls (often cited as the best advice in the reading I've done in the past).

The MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller that is wired into the MIM-E03CN Control Kit allows you to set both DHW temperature and set a schedule (I aim to heat the water at 1pm where the outside ambient temperature is typically warmest during the day). It appears that once you change the behaviour of the system to use the thermostat within the MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller, you can set a central heating set point and switch it on or off. No scheduling or set back temperature options.

My main questions are:

  • Does the included Samsung MWR-WW10N Wired Remote Controller make a suitable stand alone controller (albeit without the ability to set a heating schedule with set backs)?
  • Has anyone else had success using the Samsung MIM-H04EN WiFi Kit 2.0? If so, how did you get it into SmartThings and what other control do you gain?

My goal is to still have the simplest control system with some degree of remote override ability and avoid short cycling from a control system that isn't well paired with an ASHP. Can I ask what you'd do in my position. Any other views on my efforts are welcome.

Thanks for getting this far!

Jon

preamble and system design: all good. same as mine give or take a few details.

samsung wired remote as standalone controller - yes , if all you need is room temp. as you say, no schedule, no set back. some folk are entirely happy with that.

wifi - don't know. not seen anyone on here thats used it yet.

what have I done - used an external setup that gives me room temp sensing on multiple rooms , scheduling and setback, was originally a boiler system, and it gives me a dynamic "% load" not simply on/off, but I have put home assistant automation between that output of that and the input to the heat pump so that I don't get short cycling, I have a "damping" hysteresis as well. there's some discussion of rolling your own controls on other threads, if you're into that. but perhaps not, if you want simple!

off the shelf option worth a look (not a recommendation, just a name) : Homely

 

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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(@mike-h)
Reputable Member Member
1197 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 127
 

@jonbennell Hi Jon, it looks as if you and I have been on similar journeys. Perhaps G L installed yours as well. I was also hoping to use the wired controller's room stat as it is supposed to be 'a bit more clever when you use the Samsung controller as the thermostat'. However, it doesn't allow you to schedule setback temperatures and the manual for the

Posted by: @jonbennell

MIM-H04EN WiFi Kit

doesn't suggest that it will supply this functionality. It looks to be designed for an air conditioner rather than a heat pump. There are folk on this forum who can control their Samsungs using modbus and home assistant or similar coding. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anything available to instruct a complete novice on how to go about doing something similar.

Wi Fi Adaptor functions

 

 


   
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(@iancalderbank)
Noble Member Contributor
3640 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 644
 

Posted by: @mike-h

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anything available to instruct a complete novice on how to go about doing something similar.

thats because the modbus / HA stuff is still at the experimental/tinkering stage, for people comfortable with coding etc. Not mature enough to be written up and/or used if one is not.

the obvious approach that I would suggest thinking about to a non-tech user is to buy Homely. Its a commercial supported product that adds most of what you are talking about - scheduling, setback, remote override, etc, if it doesn't work you are paying them so they should make it work. caveat never used it,  don't know how reliable it is , how well it works... not trying to sell it.

 

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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(@mike-h)
Reputable Member Member
1197 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 127
 

Posted by: @iancalderbank

thats because the modbus / HA stuff is still at the experimental/tinkering stage, for people comfortable with coding etc

Thanks Ian. I am comfortable with coding, having customised my critical care unit's computerised information system. I'm sure that it would still be a steepish learning curve, but what I really don't understand is how to connect all the hardware together. A simple guide to connecting Samsung to modbus and modbus to laptop would be very helpful.


   
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(@iancalderbank)
Noble Member Contributor
3640 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 644
 

@mike-h most of the modbus / make your own scheduling system discussion is in this thread

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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(@jonbennell)
Active Member Member
47 kWhs
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Thanks for those who've read and commented on this post. Interestingly, I did have Homely as part of the original heat pump install but I requested it was removed as there were control issues (turned out to be the wiring to the 2-port valves) but at the time, this was unclear to both me and the installer.

So now I'm back to a single zone and have Evergreen due back on Monday, I've asked them to consider installing Homely again now that we're confident it's a good fit. Crucially for my peace of mind, it aims to use the lowest flow rate (giving greatest efficiency) to meet our heating schedule. This will be simple with at most a 3C setback for over night or when the property is unoccupied.

Finally, Samsung support with the SmartThings ticket has been so far awful. The WiFi kit is going back as it doesn't currently work and is highly unlikely to meet our 'simple to use' goals.

I'd love to play with building a modbus interface as I've seen in other threads. However with running my own business and having a two year old at home, I have other priorities and little time left to entertain my curiosities!


   
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(@iancalderbank)
Noble Member Contributor
3640 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 644
 

@jonbennell really interested to hear how you get on with homely. its been much discussed on this forum but only theoretically , no one actually has it. Are they coming to install it in person then?

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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(@jonbennell)
Active Member Member
47 kWhs
Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

@iancalderbank I'll be happy to let you know how it pans out. Evergreen are coming on Monday to commission my system after the big changes from last week, where they'll fit Homely (I think it's highly likely that they will). I've also got some monitoring attached via a research project so I should be able to provide some empirical evidence.

At the end of this whole project (hoping it will be totally finished on Monday) and after a couple of months of running, there may be a cautionary tale to write, based on my experience. I'm just relieved that my installer, once the defects and quality issues had been observed by their certification body, then agreed to work hard to put it right. It's a shame it took a third party to get them to move from their original position that 'everything is fine...'


   
Derek M reacted
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(@derek-m)
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13971 kWhs
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Posts: 4198
 

Posted by: @jonbennell

@iancalderbank I'll be happy to let you know how it pans out. Evergreen are coming on Monday to commission my system after the big changes from last week, where they'll fit Homely (I think it's highly likely that they will). I've also got some monitoring attached via a research project so I should be able to provide some empirical evidence.

At the end of this whole project (hoping it will be totally finished on Monday) and after a couple of months of running, there may be a cautionary tale to write, based on my experience. I'm just relieved that my installer, once the defects and quality issues had been observed by their certification body, then agreed to work hard to put it right. It's a shame it took a third party to get them to move from their original position that 'everything is fine...'

I'm pleased to read that you 'stuck to your guns', it is the only way to get poor installers to improve their game.

 


   
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