@derek-m great, thanks.

Posted by: @craig1980

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It's not practical for them to hang around for a few days to let it all settle and tweak WC but if they showed the customer more info than "control it with the room stats" that would help.

The better option is for them to fit control systems which can be monitored remotely. That enables them to check temperatures, flow-rates and efficiency after they've completed installation, but without needing to do a site visit.

In the longer term it will save them time because they won't have customers trying to incorrectly identify 'problems' on the phone. They'll have real data with which to do a diagnosis.

This was part of the important feedback given to BEIS as a result of the three 250-home trials they did in England. What's the point of the feedback if it doesn't get translated into recommendations given to professional installers? Those three trials cost us tax-payers £15m !

@hughf thanks. So many new names for parts that I've never heard of. 🤣

@transparent that makes sense.

Posted by: @craig1980

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If the thermostat can be ordered from Amazon I can grab one but I'm not entirely sure what I need

I'd suggest you order component parts from the right sort of supplier.

If you know what's the part you require, then try BES.

If you're unsure, then a local plumbing/heating supplier, like Plumbase, is better. You can get it out of the box and see what instructions come with it. They'll also know what other (trade) customers are buying, which is a good indicator. If you ask for something too obscure, they probably won't have it in stock!

Posted by: @transparent

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Posted by: @craig1980

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It's not practical for them to hang around for a few days to let it all settle and tweak WC but if they showed the customer more info than "control it with the room stats" that would help.

The better option is for them to fit control systems which can be monitored remotely. That enables them to check temperatures, flow-rates and efficiency after they've completed installation, but without needing to do a site visit.

In the longer term it will save them time because they won't have customers trying to incorrectly identify 'problems' on the phone. They'll have real data with which to do a diagnosis.

This was part of the important feedback given to BEIS as a result of the three 250-home trials they did in England. What's the point of the feedback if it doesn't get translated into recommendations given to professional installers? Those three trials cost us tax-payers £15m !

Maybe they should have just given the £15 million to Hugh and  myself. 😋 I could live with that, how about you Hugh? 😎 

Posted by: @derek-m

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Maybe they should have just given the £15 million to Hugh and  myself.

There's a measure of truth in this. The one thing that they didn't do was to create a public survey/consultation from which to learn 'best practice'.

The Installers they selected are hardly likely to reveal what they got wrong or failed to optimise. And the trial-sites were deliberately selected from a database according to building style and date of construction. So the owners were mostly unable to provide technically-accurate feedback either.

But since we live in a democracy, the unwashed masses can simply write in and ask for their observations to be taken into account.

The relevant information, together with the project's email address are online here.

You will either get a response thanking you and asking for further technical detail of your points...

... or else you'll get a brush-off. I doubt the latter is in their best interest because you could show it to your MP.

Posted by: @derek-m

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Posted by: @transparent

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Posted by: @craig1980

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It's not practical for them to hang around for a few days to let it all settle and tweak WC but if they showed the customer more info than "control it with the room stats" that would help.

The better option is for them to fit control systems which can be monitored remotely. That enables them to check temperatures, flow-rates and efficiency after they've completed installation, but without needing to do a site visit.

In the longer term it will save them time because they won't have customers trying to incorrectly identify 'problems' on the phone. They'll have real data with which to do a diagnosis.

This was part of the important feedback given to BEIS as a result of the three 250-home trials they did in England. What's the point of the feedback if it doesn't get translated into recommendations given to professional installers? Those three trials cost us tax-payers £15m !

Maybe they should have just given the £15 million to Hugh and  myself. 😋 I could live with that, how about you Hugh? 😎 

 

I wouldn’t say no 🤣 all jokes aside, if I wasn’t usefully employed in the electronics industry, I’d probably re-train and work in the heatpump space.

Posted by: @hughf

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Posted by: @derek-m

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Posted by: @transparent

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Posted by: @craig1980

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It's not practical for them to hang around for a few days to let it all settle and tweak WC but if they showed the customer more info than "control it with the room stats" that would help.

The better option is for them to fit control systems which can be monitored remotely. That enables them to check temperatures, flow-rates and efficiency after they've completed installation, but without needing to do a site visit.

In the longer term it will save them time because they won't have customers trying to incorrectly identify 'problems' on the phone. They'll have real data with which to do a diagnosis.

This was part of the important feedback given to BEIS as a result of the three 250-home trials they did in England. What's the point of the feedback if it doesn't get translated into recommendations given to professional installers? Those three trials cost us tax-payers £15m !

Maybe they should have just given the £15 million to Hugh and  myself. 😋 I could live with that, how about you Hugh? 😎 

 

I wouldn’t say no 🤣 all jokes aside, if I wasn’t usefully employed in the electronics industry, I’d probably re-train and work in the heatpump space.

 

I'm afraid you wouldn't be offered a job, you are too knowledgeable. Think of what you could do with your £5 million share. 😋 

My ASHP came from Freedom HP, so if @hughf is correct then my two pumps are fixed. Otherwise I don’t know how I would be able to tell. 

Looking at the figures supplied of 44kWh generated in 24 hrs to keep the house at 18 degrees. If 4 kWh was used for hot water and the outside temperature was say 10 degrees P specific works out at 0.2kW That is the heat loss of the house per degree C that the outside temperature is below inside temperature. This also fits with the very low flow temperatures that still keep the house at 18 degrees. 

I also have a 12kW Samsung and my P specific is around O.4.( I live in a solid stone walled 200 year old cottage). I suspect Craig’s ASHP is oversized and perhaps this may be the cause of the short cycling. It just can’t put out any less heat?

Entirely possible. It may well work just fine once it gets colder outside. It's unseasonably mild right now. Equally, we don't like a warm house but we were never asked those details. So they probably assumed 20-21 room temp would be the aim. 

@derek-m both pumps operate whichever room stat is turned up/down. Both receiver's mounted on the wall by the cylinder acknowledge signal when turned up individually so that seems okay. Odd that both pumps work? Heat pump also kicks in whichever is turned up.

Turning both off will turn off the heat pump and water pump. Turning just one off makes a few clicks and that's all that changes. Same instantaneous power usage.