Posted by: @iantelescope

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@iancalderbank 

Hi Ian, Again many thanks.

I will have to fix this myself , here is very complex block diagram of my Heat Pump.

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 The System was designed for a double Samsung system using Heat exchangers to connect the separate systems.

The Radiator water loop is pumped by a separate Grundfoss PWM pump controlled by a Honeywell Thermostat in my living room.

The Primary water loop is controlled by the Air sensor on top of the outdoor Heat pump.

The System is always used under Weather Compensation ( nee Water Law).

Personally, I would like to abandon the entire system, returning to a far simpler One water loop  system without Heat Exchangers, Volumisers or secondary pumps , Expansion vessels and PRV's.

 

 

ian

Rent a press gun for the weekend and just re-plumb it yourself. The Samsung isn’t remotely complicated to plumb up. Just follow the midsummer wholesale installation instructions. You need a 3 port, an expansion vessel, external pwm pump and a flow sensor. That’s it.

@hughf 

I have bought a manual crimping tool with several Viega sets of copper 15,22 and 28 mm fittings.

I have bought a spare Grundfos motor with both three way valves...........

I have thought about removing the unwanted Heat Exchanger , Volumiser , Expansion vessel along with the forest of pipes adorning this device.

However, my incompetent "Installer" has indicated that he is "watching".

It is a question of courage ...........................standing up to the incompetent "installer".

I probably could do it myself ....................a full year of "repairs" by my "installer" has replaced every "fault" with another............................ , new fault !

ian

Posted by: @iantelescope

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@hughf 

I have bought a manual crimping tool with several Viega sets of copper 15,22 and 28 mm fittings.

I have bought a spare Grundfos motor with both three way valves...........

I have thought about removing the unwanted Heat Exchanger , Volumiser , Expansion vessel along with the forest of pipes adorning this device.

However, my incompetent "Installer" has indicated that he is "watching".

It is a question of courage ...........................standing up to the incompetent "installer".

I probably could do it myself ....................a full year of "repairs" by my "installer" has replaced every "fault" with another............................ , new fault !

ian

 

You’re all set to go then - fyi, Toolstation are probably the best source for off-the-shelf M press fittings. Screw fix sell conex B-press which no-one ever has the jaws for!

Hello,

thanks so much for all of your contributions here, helped me a lot with getting my gen6 12kw heat pump up and running.

Several times in this thread users mentioned they use a timer to turn heating off e.g. at night - but I am lost how that is done.  

In the timer settings of my gen6 heat pump, I can only turn on/off quiet mode and DHW for specific hours, but not heating.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

@iantelescope do you have any update of what you've attempted/achieved over the last 5 months?
[My apologies for only just coming across your posts from April this year]

1: The inability of MCS to enforce its membership to implement the regulations is a generic problem.

2: What has happened in your case also breaches Part-L of the Building Regulations.

Those are two issues which result in others not now wanting to install a heat-pump in their own house.
The inefficiencies result in the home requiring more energy than it should.
Which is why the government misses its targets:

The House of Commons Committee on Energy Security and Net Zero need to receive that evidence....
... not specifically about your site because that will come across as an 'individual complaint' and not be acceptable as evidence.

But they do need to know that MCS are allowing members who have been struck off to re-apply...
... and that there are houses being left with equipment which is incorrectly specified and installed.
They need photographs, diagrams etc which demonstrate the 'state of the market'.

They should be made aware of the different levels of incompetence which prevent GB from reaching Net Zero.

The HoC DESNZ Committee have four current Inquiries open to the public, for which all are now past their date to receive evidence.

It could be possible to circumvent that timing problem if the weight of evidence you can provide is strong.
The Committee's staff need to see that what you present is sufficiently important that its contents must be laid before the Committee and included in their final report.

The Heating our Homes Topic has not yet had any of its evidence published online.
So that leaves a better opportunity for you to file a submission.

You can already read the submissions for the Flexible Grid Topic and see the sort of evidence which is being accepted.

Some documents from large companies are just bland text, often difficult to understand and saying very little. 😫 

Whilst other documents from community groups, individuals and campaigners are better presented.
They are making clear points rather than just trying to pass comment on all aspects of the subject.

So, there's the challenge.
Would you be interested in creating a well-targeted submission which reveals to MPs in graphic detail why the present policies to get heat-pumps installed are falling short of their Net Zero targets?

Hi Ian, first of all sorry for my English.

So im having same issue as you. This peace of s… keeps going on and off like its a light house.

I have older unit(series 5) with R410. Its 4kW heat pump that is heating small well insulated house (50sqm).

It was installed at the end of the last winter so this is actually first year that im traying to set it up.

Setup is as following:

heat pump - hydrobox - 3way valve for floor heating and dhw. There is a small 40l buffer tank installed on the floor heating side. In my case main reason for buffer tank is that without it i would not get required flow of 7lpm as i have only 6 floor circuits and normally 1 is closed or it has hardly reduced flow (so dogs have a cooler place if they want). Buffer does not have internal heat exchanger, it is hydrobox that uses 1 in/out from buffer and 2nd in/out is driven by separate Groundfoss that circulates water in the floor. So same water thru all system.When hydrobox pump starts it will start floor pump as well.
I have installed wired remote controller in to the living room so i can make changes on the go and hoping that i can use its temp sensor to regulate room temp. Oh my i was wrong…

On the wired remote controler i have option to change if i want to use room temp (taken from WRC) or water temp to control room temp. 
When using room temp as reference, room temp oscilation is way to high. What is happening is following:

set temp 22C

Heating starts at 21.9 C. HP will try to follow water law set in field setting parameters. However it will not allow compresor or pump to stop untill room temp on the WRC is reached. Once the water law temp is reached it will reduce power to min (approx 300W total) and water temp will rise to what ever temp is required so that floor can  discipate in to the space. (At 10C outside temp i would need constant 27C water temp to have room at steady 22C). This 300W will eventually heat up water to around 31-32C
Main problem here is that it will stop ONLY when the room temp is 23C. Now there is so much energy acumulated in the concrete floor that it will overshoot above 23 even the system is off. Untill it drops down to 21.9 floor is cold and when the HP starts it will keep dropping aditional 0.1-0.3 C. 
I did not manage to find any FSV that could lower start/stop threshold so basically it is what it is 1C between start/stop.

Now as this is not how i want system to work i changed operation to follow water law and  now the show starts. It was tone yesterday night so by this morning i have clear record of how system is acting. Ot is bassocally as following:

Hydrobox will start water pumps and they run for 3 minutes. If water temp is between 2-3C lower than requested by water law it will start compressor. Compressor runs untill water law temp is reached gradually reducing power as it get close to desired value. Eventually it stops. Pumps will keep running for inconsistent times (sometimes 2 min, other time 4,5 min). When they stop they will stay off for inconsistent time (between 8 seconds and few minutes) and process will repeat. 
To ignore house looses i disconected secondary pump so water flow is only hydrobox-buffer. I left it like that for 1 hour and found followin.

Internal pump will run for 3 minutes, as water is at desired temperature it will not start compresor. After 3min it will stop pump for 7 minutes and repeat this process untill eventually water temp drops and it starts compressor.

I did not found parameter to reduce or increase pump operating or stopped time, so basically this is how genius at Samsung designed it.

The only way i can imagine i could try to sort it out is to add aditional room thermostat with configurable threshold (like Netatmo smart thermostat), set FSV 2091 to 1 (only thermostat can stop compressor), and  set room temp threshold to 0.1 or 0.2C so that floor does not acumulate or loose too much energy between cycles. It would still follow up water law (or litle bit warmer when outside is not could) but pump would not cycle  80+ times a day.

And thoughts;)?

@andrejri  regarding the first part of your description, the physics of what you are saying happens, would seem be that energy is being pumped into room too fast, room overheats (to a temp that is higher than you are comfortable with), it switches off, it cools down (to a lower temp than you are conmfortable with), it runs again.

Can you lower the WC numbers so the system runs at a lower water temperature, so that you have a balance between energy input and heat loss in the room?

@iancalderbank unfortunatelly no. It is allready running at the lowest seting that compressor can modulate and in room temp mode WC prevents compressor from turning off untill room temp is reached. I gues this would work if FC is used instead of floor, as air temp respond much faster than the concrete. When i did run it that way it would take 6-8 hours between turning on and off. Then would take another 6-8 hours to cool room and start again. Maybee im missing some parameter in FSV but i can not understand why threshold for On/off has to be fixed 1C, and yet it gives me option to set room temp in steps of 0.1C. Will try to install aditional thermostat this days and see what will change. Should be so simple. Start pump at 21.8C follow water law, stop pump at 22.2C if heat demand is lower than minimum HP oitput. Wait untill 21.8 and start again. Im guessing once it gets colder outside this wont happend as house will have larger heat demand.

At the moment water temp is 27.5C, floor temp 24.5C, room temp 22.6C and outside 9C. Im happy with this apart from cycling constantly.  This will be even larger problem as im about to instal PV system and want to run what Victron calls EES, and i definitelly dont want heat pump to go 12W-400W-700W and sometimes even 1000W and then drop down to 12W all in period of 5-8 min. Look at the photos. First one is running at constant ~300W. 2nd and 3rd are water law. 1 bar equals 1 min electricity consumption.

Posted by: @johanffw

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Hello,

thanks so much for all of your contributions here, helped me a lot with getting my gen6 12kw heat pump up and running.

Several times in this thread users mentioned they use a timer to turn heating off e.g. at night - but I am lost how that is done.  

In the timer settings of my gen6 heat pump, I can only turn on/off quiet mode and DHW for specific hours, but not heating.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Hi there, as you have discovered, there is no ability to schedule space heating with the Samsung controller. You can only do this by using a third party thermostat. You can then set a low temperature when you want the heat pump to be off and a high temperature when you want it on. For example, my Samsung goes off at 10.30pm (thermostat set at 14 deg C) and the thermostat then calls for heat at 4am (set at 22 deg C). The house is usually around 18 deg C by 7am. 

If you fit a third party thermostat then there are settings that you will need to change on the controller. Some thermostats are not suitable for heat pumps as they are too sensitive and switch the heat pump on and off too frequently. I hope that is helpful. 

Posted by: @mike-h

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Hi there, as you have discovered, there is no ability to schedule space heating with the Samsung controller. 

actually, as I discovered very recently thanks to a post from GlynHudson in the openenergy forum, there is.

Settings -> Schedule -> Add a Schedule -> WEEKLY schedule 

once in the Weekly schedule you can set Zone temperature events i.e. CH space heating targets. they can be set as active or not active for each of the 7 days

In the Daily schedule, which is all I ever looked at before this info from Glyn, you can only set DHW events, which is why I thought (like you) that you couldn't automate a CH setback purely with the samsung controller. But you can, I've been trying it for the last couple of days.

I've never seen this documented anywhere else, to me this is a new discovery.

Posted by: @andrejri

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@iancalderbank unfortunatelly no. It is allready running at the lowest seting that compressor can modulate and in room temp mode WC prevents compressor from turning off untill room temp is reached. I gues this would work if FC is used instead of floor, as air temp respond much faster than the concrete. When i did run it that way it would take 6-8 hours between turning on and off. Then would take another 6-8 hours to cool room and start again. Maybee im missing some parameter in FSV but i can not understand why threshold for On/off has to be fixed 1C, and yet it gives me option to set room temp in steps of 0.1C. Will try to install aditional thermostat this days and see what will change. Should be so simple. Start pump at 21.8C follow water law, stop pump at 22.2C if heat demand is lower than minimum HP oitput. Wait untill 21.8 and start again. Im guessing once it gets colder outside this wont happend as house will have larger heat demand.

At the moment water temp is 27.5C, floor temp 24.5C, room temp 22.6C and outside 9C. Im happy with this apart from cycling constantly.  This will be even larger problem as im about to instal PV system and want to run what Victron calls EES, and i definitelly dont want heat pump to go 12W-400W-700W and sometimes even 1000W and then drop down to 12W all in period of 5-8 min. Look at the photos. First one is running at constant ~300W. 2nd and 3rd are water law. 1 bar equals 1 min electricity consumption.

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I don't have UFH and I'm not an expert in it, I am not a professional heating engineer, but I have seen many designs online where there is a mixer on the water input circuit to the UFH loops? As far as I understand, it takes water from the "emitter return" and the "heat source flow", thermostatically mixes them into the "emitter flow", in order to reduce the flow temp into the emitter flow circuit. Do you have that?

my HP (G6) isn't stable below about 33 so I'm not surprised yours is unstable at 27.

Posted by: @iancalderbank

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Posted by: @mike-h

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Hi there, as you have discovered, there is no ability to schedule space heating with the Samsung controller. 

actually, as I discovered very recently thanks to a post from GlynHudson in the openenergy forum, there is.

Settings -> Schedule -> Add a Schedule -> WEEKLY schedule 

once in the Weekly schedule you can set Zone temperature events i.e. CH space heating targets. they can be set as active or not active for each of the 7 days

In the Daily schedule, which is all I ever looked at before this info from Glyn, you can only set DHW events, which is why I thought (like you) that you couldn't automate a CH setback purely with the samsung controller. But you can, I've been trying it for the last couple of days.

I've never seen this documented anywhere else, to me this is a new discovery.

 

Thanks for this. It’s a great discovery and hopefully more Samsung users will come across your post.