British Gas versus Octopus: Two possible heat pump routes - how to evaluate them?
@dougmlancs I haven't had any further communication from 🐙 so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row before approaching them because I only want to do it once.
I need the temperatures of rooms increasing - bedrooms designed as offices and a square central hallway that is also a well-used room - as well as overall heat loss calcs that relate to my previous gas use and my patchy insulation.
There's a risk with 🐙 that they cherry pick and although I'm a super easy install as my big cellar means no floors have to come up for pipework they appear to be trying to keep costs down - eg 50º design = less rad changes (I got that from 🐙 staff) - previously, more complex installs than mine were a lot cheaper.
Thus I don't want them to say 'sorry no can do' because that may push me back to gas.
BG want over a £1400 more for a 6kw installation but at least they gave me the option of 4kw or 6kw. I have to also sort my own bathroom radiator for both 🐙 & BG which is fine (design matters for me) but it bumps up the cost.
I've now read MIS 3005 and it's not as rigid as installers try to make out. I want the cheapest possible running costs and I want to be warm and I don't subscribe to 'bigger is better' but not sure 4kw can hack the pace at low flow temperatures.
It shouldn't be this tricky but I'm seriously not impressed by their awful Cosy - apart from anything else, watch that top sloping grid get full of crap. 🙀
@lucia did you also approach any Heat Geeks?
Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU
From Zero to Heat Pump Hero: https://amzn.to/4bWkPFb
Subscribe and follow our Homeowners’ Q&A heat pump podcast
@editor I can't afford to lose £350 on a survey plus their installation charges are a lot higher and there's not enough installers in the south west.
If I do their 'online quote' it comes up with the same nonsense calculations based on the same presuppositions. Thus if they recalculated the heat loss based on the realities the 'quote' would be even higher.
Ok... things have changed since this morning. I've 'met someone' ... 😁
Who has a similar opinion of MCS guidelines as me.
I realised that it would be better if I could find an independent installer's opinion but Heat Geek assessments are out of my financial reach. That's the price of a radiator or two.
I contacted an installer in the deep sw wilds (like me) that I found from someone's installation on Heat Pump Monitor (yes, I click on all the little boxes 😂). But I didn't hear anything for a few weeks. He just phoned me. I told him my sorry saga including the patience of people here trying to teach me about Delta T's so I could (try to) figure things out for myself.
He's Heat Geek registered and trained but he's done more than that. It turns out he doesn't use MCS software or assumptions. Quite the opposite - he's not impressed with any of it. He designed his own software during lockdown precisely so it can be tweaked to function however it's needed. ✊🏻
So watch this space... he's coming over at the end of next week - He fits Mitsis and Daikins amongst others so I hope I can afford him because I think we're on the same page. Yay! 🤞🏻
Posted by: @luciaat the end of next week - He fits Mitsis and Daikins amongst others so I hope I can afford him
I personally think the whole MCS thing is a get rich quick for most installations. The costs aren't huge especially if it's just a few radiators to install, heat and cylinder.
Daikin or better a Panasonic monobloc is about £2k from City Plumbing, £800 to £1k for a cylinder. Yet the bill comes to £7500 plus a few £k - where does the money go?
Maxa i32V5 6kW ASHP (heat and cooling)
6.5kW PV
13.5kW GivEnergy AIO Battery.
@johnmo A Daikin EDLA04EV3 which is the starter of what Octopus fit is £3000+ in City Plumbing. Of course, Octopus have lots of clout so will have negotiated a knock down deal but apart from the pump & tank I think a lot goes on labour. Octopus have 3 or 4 staff on site for days.
For a small local company without the buying power it's probably labour and training and insurance.
There are of course a bunch of hustlers too but that, sadly, is inevitable. It all needs demystifying.
Having responded to BG on a few points (buffer!) I now have an Octopus survey at the end of the month. It will be interesting to see how they respond to running the pipes and power under the path. To me that is the only slightly difficult bit of the installation. Having just reread this thread it has been invaluable help and I'm most grateful to all the respondents.
Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
I think I have read somewhere that the British Gas chief heat pump designer does not use buffers in his systems.
@broadsman Unfortunately this does not seem to have trickled down to the surveyor who still added one to my quote even though I mentioned I did not want one.
Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.
-
Vaillant arotherm plus heat pump frost protection
3 months ago
-
Daikin Octopus installation update - I saw my first defrost. 😍😂
3 months ago
-
Daikin Error Code 7H05
5 months ago
-
Vaillant aroTHERM plus not level or flat - what base is best under an external unit?
6 months ago
-
Vaillant Arotherm monobloc error f.788 - ASHP is not working!
6 months ago
- 22 Forums
- 2,057 Topics
- 44.9 K Posts
- 89 Online
- 3,299 Members
Join Us!
Trusted Installers
Struggling to find a reliable heat pump installer? A poor installation can lead to inefficiencies and high running costs. We now connect homeowners with top-rated installers who deliver quality work and excellent service.
✅ Verified, trusted & experienced installers
✅ Nationwide coverage expanding
✅ Special offers available
Latest Posts
-
RE: Is Your 6kW Air Source Heat Pump Really a 6kW?
There are various ways to look at things related to CoP...
By Johnmo , 38 minutes ago
-
RE: IVT Greenline high pressure switch and electrical cassette errors
@abbote thanks for that advice.There was a bit of air i...
By tdudgeon , 1 hour ago
-
RE: Heat Pump Manufacturers Recommending Buffer Tanks
One manufacturer Viessmann has to have their buffer, as...
By Johnmo , 3 hours ago
-
RE: How To Balance Radiators & the Role of the Lockshield Valve: A Homeowner's Guide
Good luck, I hope it all works out!
By JamesPa , 21 hours ago
-
@johnd it's a difficult one, because we've seen instanc...
By Mars , 24 hours ago
-
RE: Is your heat pump insured?
@johnmo sorry it comes across like that. The post is au...
By KevinPotts , 1 day ago
-
RE: Getting the best out of a heat pump - is Homely a possible answer?
@johnmo Perhaps a little detail might explain my reason...
By Toodles , 1 day ago
-
Win a 6-panel PV courtesy of egg and Renewable Heating Hub
Our epic giveaway just went live! Want to win a 6-pan...
By Mars , 2 days ago
-
RE: Yes, the "zoning with ASHP" topic again...
James, thanks again for your thoughtful and persistent ...
By HarryRea , 2 days ago
-
RE: Is this normal? Click of the DHW returning to space heating
So the Lone Ranger returned today! Even though we thoro...
By Grantmethestrength , 2 days ago
-
RE: Vaillant & OVO partner up to offer Heat Pump Plus
Hopefully iv done the right thing today by signing up t...
By Westkent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Battery sizing - How low can you go!
My own experience with connecting four batteries to thr...
By Transparent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Plate heat exchanger considerations
Work on 2-3 percent per degree. This is a reasonable e...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
RE: Advice for ground source heat pump in new build with PV and batteries
The useful bit is the bit that specifies the heat loss ...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
RE: Volumisers in Heat Pump Systems: Does Placement Matter?
You’re absolutely right that during defrost the refrige...
By Mars , 3 days ago
-
@editor thanks Mars that’s the same table I found in th...
By Gary , 3 days ago
-
RE: Tariff and charging strategy advice please
They haven't asked me to prove that I have an EV (I do)...
By JamesPa , 3 days ago
-
RE: Solar Power Output – Let’s Compare Generation Figures
Took a while to find on the OFGEN site: ”The FIT sche...
By AgentGeorge , 3 days ago
-
RE: why solar diverters for HW instead of the heat pump?
For me there are few factors why you may want to heat w...
By Johnmo , 3 days ago