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How would you rate the design, installation and efficiency of your heat pump system? Poll is created on Nov 06, 2022

  
  
  
  
  
  

[Sticky] Rate the quality of your heat pump design and installation

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Mars
 Mars
(@editor)
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I understand that Octopus want to be trendy and be ahead of the curve but there aren't many houses in the UK that will pull off this purple look.

Purple

Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU

Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm: https://myhomefarm.co.uk


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
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@editor There is a solution! https://www.creative-solutions-direct.co.uk/shop/category/air-source-heat-pump-wrapping-service#:~:text=Most%20Air%20Source%20Heat%20Pumps,its%20warranty%2C%20running%20or%20efficiency.

Regards with tongue in cheek, Toodles

 

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
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@editor I found this on YouTube and it would appear the presenter has had an Octopus Energy onstallation recently and perhaps someone who uses social media (I don’t) might like to invite him to tell us how he rates his installation.

Regards, Toodles.

Toodles, 76 years young and hoping to see 100 and make some ROI on my renewable energy investment!


   
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Mars
 Mars
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@toodles good suggestion. If anyone knows this chap or follows him please invite him. I’d be very curious to find out more.

On semi-related note, if anyone is on Facebook and is inclined to promote our forums to attract more users and grow our community, please feel free to do so.

Buy Bodge Buster – Homeowner Air Source Heat Pump Installation Guide: https://amzn.to/3NVndlU

Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm: https://myhomefarm.co.uk


   
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(@iantelescope)
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@editor

My "installer" was finally STRUCK-OFF for modifying the MCS House  Energy Requirements to justify the installation of a Heat Pump they just happened to have available in their back room. 

This feat of backward Engineering was accomplished by changing the Thermal conductivity of my walls .......until the total power equalled that provided by the Back room Heat Pump.

One of the installation engineers blushed , bright red, when discovered.

Adjustment of the Wall Thermal conductivity makes a mockery of the MCS House Energy requirements!.


   
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(@elton)
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The installer seems to be gaining some national notoriety. See from 22:50 onwards. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001vnfx/rip-off-britain-series-15-40-my-house-is-a-building-site  

And good Lord, I just took a look at their Trust Pilot feedback, wish I hadn't! Some quite distressed individuals.


   
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(@tp1964)
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I inherited my ASHP (NIBE F2040) when we moved into our bungalow in 2019. System installed 2015.

I voted 'poor' in above survey, but almost chose the worse rating.  Costs to run my ASHP are exorbitant in winter months.  Twice that compared to my previous 4 bedroom house which was Gas Centrally Heated. Our ASHP is regularly serviced by NIBE trained engineers but they are unable to improve efficiency. I have reached out to a few local ASHP installers to request they assess the existing installation for anything that could be improved but no one will entertain this.

Home insulation has been assessed and rated very good (nothing more to do).  I have solar panels and solar water heating.

Previous system was an Oil Boiler and wish it was still here.

 


   
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(@derek-m)
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Posted by: @tp1964

I inherited my ASHP (NIBE F2040) when we moved into our bungalow in 2019. System installed 2015.

I voted 'poor' in above survey, but almost chose the worse rating.  Costs to run my ASHP are exorbitant in winter months.  Twice that compared to my previous 4 bedroom house which was Gas Centrally Heated. Our ASHP is regularly serviced by NIBE trained engineers but they are unable to improve efficiency. I have reached out to a few local ASHP installers to request they assess the existing installation for anything that could be improved but no one will entertain this.

Home insulation has been assessed and rated very good (nothing more to do).  I have solar panels and solar water heating.

Previous system was an Oil Boiler and wish it was still here.

 

If you would care to provide more details, with wide angle and close-up photo's, we may be able to identify problems and suggest improvements.

 


   
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(@iantelescope)
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@editor

Now entering my second year in my attempt at getting a stable and economic replacement for my Gas boiler can I vent my exasperation with the conflicting advice of Heat Pump experts.

I have a system, that , according to many of the "experts" is totally unnecessary , and constitutes an act of rear end protection.

Needless to say, many other "experts", including BOTH of my system manufacturers  demand a Buffer for four different reasons:

1: To dump hot water during very cold Scottish nights, thus preventing icing.

2: To help isolate the Heat pump from changes in the water flow rate in the radiator circuit.

3: To reduce , or eliminate "Short Cycling" when the water temperature is reducing.

4: To reduce , or eliminate "Short Cycling " in Spring and Autumn when the Heat Pump is operating at it's lowest controlled power , usually one third of the system maximum power.

Similar arguments are put forward , and virulently opposed by other "experts" for my Heat Exchanger.

Both the buffer and the heat exchanger taken together loose some 22-23% in energy, so this is no academic conversation.

Buffer ....Yes or No?

Heat Exchanger........ Yes or No?

I understand the arithmetic for  calculating the buffer size , but, as the MCS says,  "a buffer will increase your running costs".


   
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(@derek-m)
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Hi Ian,

I understand your frustration, particularly when being provided with conflicting advice.

It is still my considered opinion that if at all possible buffer tanks should not be installed in the first place, and if one has been installed it should be re-piped to convert it into a volumiser.

Item 1. A buffer tank will not prevent icing, and unless it has a reasonably large volume will not help too much during the defrosting process.

Item 2. You actually need sufficient water flowrate through both the heat pump and the heat emitters. Having a buffer tank that is not correctly balanced can dramatically reduce overall efficiency.

Items 3 & 4. A heat pump is always going to cycle once the heating demand falls below the minimum continuous thermal energy output of the heat pump. As has been discussed previously on the forum, there are different methods of control that can be used to minimise cycling to improve overall efficiency, it is a matter of finding the method that works best for your system.

Without reading back through the various threads, where is the PHE that you mention?


   
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(@iantelescope)
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@derek-m 

Hi Derek,

Please accept my apologies , I am at my wits end with the second anniversary of my Heat Pump odyssey.

A recent visit by a pair of "engineers" from my , now former,  Installer,  accompanied by an " NIC Inspector" totally destroyed any confidence in both my Installer and the NIC.

The trio of "engineers" attempted to force the Water Temperature when the Water Temperature was controlled by the Samsung Weather Compensation module , aka Samsung Water Law.

The trio abandoned the attempt leaving the Heat Pump faulty and inoperative .

I repaired the heat Pump within 30 minutes of their departure.

The NIC "engineer Inspector" was upset by the Buffer tank and the Heat Exchanger saying he had no knowledge or experience of Weather compensation , Continuous Power control , Buffer Tanks or Heat Exchangers!

Despite having no knowledge or experience ,  the NIC "Expert Engineer" proceeded to attack me for fitting the buffer tank?

Plate Heat Exchanger, PHE

The PHE came with the Telford 200 litre tank fitted by Telford to "provide hydraulic isolation and prevent Glycol from entering the radiator circuit".

The PHE (hopefully)  protected the Heat Pump when my "installer" ran the heat pump without fitting a Expansion vessel, flow rate meter or  PRV, whilst attempting to run the heat pump during the first month of the installation.

I do not know what damage was done to the Heat Pump , running for a month without sufficient  cooling  water !!

50 litre Buffer

Telford, the tank manufacturer, said , in a telephone call that "All their Tanks should be fitted with 50 L Buffer tanks , without exception"!

Samsung -Dalliam in Wigan also recommended the installation of a Buffer tank "to prevent Ice build up on the fins of the Heat Exchanger".

My "installer" then intervened saying that "their boys are perfectly capable of installing the Buffer Tank".

My "installer", then STRUCK-OFF for the first time, went silent for two months before announcing that " a 50L tank had been found under the table of the , now former , chief maintenance "engineer".

NIC Engineer

The NIC engineer , a very nice personable character, abandoned me to a broken  heat pump after the last visit.

de-icing

The de-icing routine, where the contents of the Buffer tank are dumped into the heat pump , does seem to work during the cold Scottish nights , often dumping water up to four times while consuming no electricity.

De-icing works ........but I do not know how well!

Since fitting the Buffer tank , no vast water vapour clouds have appeared .......but that could be different weather conditions.

"Short Cycling"

I can reduce, and almost  eliminate, short Cycling,  by increasing the Samsung water law Graph and/or increasing the setting on the Water law Thermostat but at the cost of efficiency.

Short Cycling has however contaminated the pipe water resulting in a black ink like residue , even after cleaning the pipes to BS7593:2019 at a cost of £600.

Many thanks Derek, your patience is appreciated!


   
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(@derek-m)
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@iantelescope

Let me have a read back through your previous posts to see what suggestions I may be able to make.


   
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