Posted by: @sand

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zero information told by installer to set and forget at 60 fixed flow ( roll eyes)

[...]

We have been trying to contact the installers since Sept for a service, thankfully the system is working OK.  On the Mitsubishi website the installers are still accredited, should this be the case? if they cant even respond to customers.

Interesting. I believe we had the same company here, but our installer told us to set and forget the auto-adapt target temperature. That worked OK for 6-8 weeks and then a firmware update made it perform crazily so I set up weather-compensation, mainly from reading the excellent comments on this site. Like you, the installers don't answer us any more, so we got another accredited installer to service it. Let me know if you want another voice in a complaint to Mitsubishi and I'll ask if we can join in, but we're a retrofit so still have them involved handling RHI.

Posted by: @witchcraft

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@derek-m Yes, @mars took the case to MCS not interested

Maybe you should consider 'name and shame'. Also try trading standards and write to your MP.

Posted by: @mjr

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Posted by: @sand

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zero information told by installer to set and forget at 60 fixed flow ( roll eyes)

[...]

We have been trying to contact the installers since Sept for a service, thankfully the system is working OK.  On the Mitsubishi website the installers are still accredited, should this be the case? if they cant even respond to customers.

Interesting. I believe we had the same company here, but our installer told us to set and forget the auto-adapt target temperature. That worked OK for 6-8 weeks and then a firmware update made it perform crazily so I set up weather-compensation, mainly from reading the excellent comments on this site. Like you, the installers don't answer us any more, so we got another accredited installer to service it. Let me know if you want another voice in a complaint to Mitsubishi and I'll ask if we can join in, but we're a retrofit so still have them involved handling RHI.

So the auto adaptation worked until the firmware update? Definite need to call the Mitsubishi technical help. Also, mention your involvement with RHH, since bad publicity sometimes helps these companies pay a little extra attention to customer complaints.

Posted by: @witchcraft

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@derek-m Yes, @mars took the case to MCS not interested

MCS are largely all talk and very little action, which is so disappointing. Equally so, the consumer codes are inept in dealing with bodged installations.

Posted by: @derek-m

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So the auto adaptation worked until the firmware update?

Like I wrote, I'd only rate it as "OK". We weren't really happy with some of its behaviour, but it wasn't also burning money like it did after the update.

Posted by: @mjr

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Posted by: @derek-m

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So the auto adaptation worked until the firmware update?

Like I wrote, I'd only rate it as "OK". We weren't really happy with some of its behaviour, but it wasn't also burning money like it did after the update.

I would still have a word with Mitsubushi, since they may not be aware that they have created a problem. For a truly auto adaptive system to work in all situations, the controller needs to have a changeable setting for controller response. It should then be possible to match the response of the controller to each individual home environment.

@hibbsy 

This is very much my experience and after 11 months of use am still not entirely sure I'm running my system at its most efficient. The grant controls were rushed over and I've resorted to web searching  to troubleshoot.

They half heartedly attached a hive thermostat (they didn't attach the hub so phones etc could access controls but just handed it to me.

Electricians were excellent and they did a neat and tidy job, but again researching you tube was the way I independently found out how to connect the inverter to smartphone to monitor pv etc.

It's delivering heat ok set between 18-20 degrees but we were told by the installers to keep the thermostat set at manual all the time after a revisit of overzealously adjusting my thermostat.

The installers took 3 days (new rads and piping), and were busy due to customers wanting installations before the RHI deadline but it still felt rushed and I'm still lagging some pipes left in some runs in the eaves! They could not replace some of the problematic TVRs on a couple of radiators which although minor found shoddy.

I'm finding the electricity use very high in the winter and less sunshine which is offset by RHI and yet to be received SEG 

I am supper happy to see that even constant negative temperature. -2 during the day -7 at night. I run on fix flow of 28c.  I set it to 24/7 but around 7pm it reaches 21c ( I use thermostat) in the house when it drops to 20.9c and around 4 am kicks back in. 

I relly belive 3. things helps that I can run on such low temp and the heatpump is not even on all the time. 2 relates to design of the system.

1. We built our our house 2015 ourselfs. I made sure that 150mm Kingspan went under the underfloorheating pipes. 140mm fiber glass in the walls. 280 mm in the loft.

2. There are no valves only pumps no restriction of water flow. As valves unfortunately do that if I am correct.

3. My underfloor was designed by by brother from a cloder country. So the piping is 20mm In the floor, I believe it is only 16mm usaly here? So the heat emitting is much bigger.

There should be a category below the lowest one that says 'Criminal rip-off'.
We have just huddled round an oil filled radiator in one room during the last two weeks of cold. The heat pump we have has not been switched on since last April.

I have had three plumbers other than the installers, all tutted at the design (210 litre hot water tank to supply one tap. Worse, the heat exchanger feeds heat into the tank, which is not a thermal store, before it goes to central heating.) Only the last plumber told me this was ridiculous waste of heat and therefore money.

I have quotes of £7K and £4K to remove the hot water tank and adjust the pipes. The last plumber said that ASHP should not have been fitted to a leaky old house like this because it had no chance of keeping us warm at an affordable price (even before the costs went up). He has recommended ripping it out and selling to someone who has a properly insulated new build where it might work.

The complaints procedure through HIES and NEICIE was pathetic and my request to refer to the Ombudsman got the response from HIES that 'we wont refer to the Ombudsman because we don't want you to be disappointed when you lose' Prejuded or what?

I have tried to discover an email address so I can correspond with the Ombudsman directly. They seem to be transparent. Much is made of their presence in the brochures but once needed they disappear.

Has anyone on this forum got an email address for the heat pump Ombudsman?
Has anyone ever been referred to the Ombudsman?

Posted by: @jswhite

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There should be a category below the lowest one that says 'Criminal rip-off'.
We have just huddled round an oil filled radiator in one room during the last two weeks of cold. The heat pump we have has not been switched on since last April.

I have had three plumbers other than the installers, all tutted at the design (210 litre hot water tank to supply one tap. Worse, the heat exchanger feeds heat into the tank, which is not a thermal store, before it goes to central heating.) Only the last plumber told me this was ridiculous waste of heat and therefore money.

I have quotes of £7K and £4K to remove the hot water tank and adjust the pipes. The last plumber said that ASHP should not have been fitted to a leaky old house like this because it had no chance of keeping us warm at an affordable price (even before the costs went up). He has recommended ripping it out and selling to someone who has a properly insulated new build where it might work.

The complaints procedure through HIES and NEICIE was pathetic and my request to refer to the Ombudsman got the response from HIES that 'we wont refer to the Ombudsman because we don't want you to be disappointed when you lose' Prejuded or what?

I have tried to discover an email address so I can correspond with the Ombudsman directly. They seem to be transparent. Much is made of their presence in the brochures but once needed they disappear.

Has anyone on this forum got an email address for the heat pump Ombudsman?
Has anyone ever been referred to the Ombudsman?

What manufacture of heat pump do you have? Whilst heating DHW first is normally set as default, it can often be changed. Do whatever you can to improve insulation, it will pay dividends now and in the future.

Who was your installer and were they MCS accredited?

You could try e-mailing the BBC's Rip off Britain team, they may be interested in your situation, also try the national newspapers.

If you provide details of your system and the problems you are experiencing, the forum members may be able to help improve the system operation.

The link is to one of my earlier posts: https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/diy-remove-dhw

The house is measured at 120 square meters but I kept pointing out that we only ever heat about half of that.

A 16Kw Samsung ASHP with 210 DHW tank was installed to supply hot water to one kitchen tap, electric shower.  and the central heating in the form of UFH in two rooms and slow flow radiators in another. We were told to heat everywhere to make the heat pump run efficiently but that lasted only a few days because cost of running did not come down and it was not particularly cold outside.

The latest plumber points out that by removing the tank and replacing with a smaller one it is hardly likely to cost less to run. The heat loss totals were supplied but not the calculations that they used to arrive at those totals. After I repeated the heat loss exercise use MCS spreadsheet I realised that the totals were very easily tweeked to provide any result that was required. Even the local weather station moved around the country to prodice a base line for heat loss differences.

The culprits were Evergreen Energy and they are MCS registered but that hardly matters because there is no comeback from those who are supposed to be checking on their work. 

Regarding Rip Off on the BBC, I'm not attracted to publicity of my victim status or stupidity - as HIES so diplomatically put it 'you signed the contract so its your own fault'. I signed the contract under pressure from the deadline of grants coming to end, did not understand the technology and had the impression that there were three different organisation that could help rectify anything that went wrong (HIES NEICIE OMBUDSMAN - first two useless last one invisible).

The vocabulary surrounding heat pumps is all about saving, but it became clear that they are more expensive to run. They are probably good in a passive house, or if you you have secondary heating in a house and with solar panels. We have none of those advantages.

Posted by: @jswhite

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as HIES so diplomatically put it 'you signed the contract so its your own fault'. I signed the contract under pressure from the deadline of grants coming to end, did not understand the technology and had the impression that there were three different organisation that could help rectify anything that went wrong (HIES NEICIE OMBUDSMAN - first two useless last one invisible).

Just so that I'm clear, you raised your complaint with HIES NEICIE and the ombudsman – which ombudsman did you flag this with? 

When you flagged your issues with HIES and they replied it was your fault, where did they assign this fault? In your selection of the installer?