Very interesting. The Planet Devices site indicates it is fully compatible with my Ecodan 8.5kw system but is very short on information regarding actual interfacing to the system. Maybe it is all very obvious to people with more ASHP experience. Is it possible to provide some basic details describing how this integrates into an existing system? Thanks

@editor Mars, is this one of those advertising features you mentioned?  It reads like one. What would be more helpful is an unbiased review perhaps comparing pros and cons to a well tested system like openenergymonitor.

@bontwoody, this is not a sponsored or paid for post. I came across their product earlier this week which looked interesting because of all the monitoring dramas we’ve seen in the site, and decided to post an article based on their product literature. I agree about posting an objective review. Our heat pump is not compatible, but I’ll see if they’re willing to send a unit to a homeowner in exchange for an honest review.

Very interesting indeed. I think at a basic level it is identical to my system: modbus connection to the heat pump, then read and write data over that connection, possibly even using the same coding language (python). They even have the same tricky to collect data, energy in and indoor air temperature, with similar fixes (use an additional sensor). Interestingly, they don't list Midea as a compatible system, though I am sure it must be.

There are at least three significant differences however:

(1) it is proprietary, ie a black box system (you have no idea what goes on in the black box)

(2) it uses wifi rather than a wire to transmit the data

(3) your data, reading between the lines ends up on their servers

Given (3), it appears that your installer, and very likely Planet Devices, will have access over the system to all your data. This obviously raises questions about privacy (will they sell your data to third parties or even the government?), and who's data is it anyway. Since you can write as well as read over modbus, it also means your installer, and very possibly Planet Devices, can control your heat pump remotely. Potentially useful if these things don't worry you, but in the wrong hands? Pesky customer? Turn up their heating to max at 2am and let them sweat a bit. Of course, no one would do that in practice, would they? But they might do something else. The problem is not where do these things start, but where do they end.

The lack of detail on their website is a bit worrying, but I suppose it is early days. There is also no information that I can see on prices. The business model appears to be Planet Devices sell to installers, and installers sell it to end users. 

@cathoderay, you’ve raised some valid points. I’ve asked Planet Devices to visit the site and answer questions.

@editor that would be brilliant Mars! An objective comparison of how accurate the modbus readings are compared to a heat meter would be very informative. Is it compatible with Samsung?

Posted by: @editor

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I’ve asked Planet Devices to visit the site and answer questions.

Good thinking. I've also had a look at the connections in the photo, and it looks like a standard two wire modbus/RS485 hookup plus DC power supply:

Posted by: @bontwoody

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Is it compatible with Samsung?

Apparently so, according to their website. Samsung units have a modbus connection via an add-on board.

@cathoderay I ran a wire just in case when I installed it 😁

Posted by: @cathoderay

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Very interesting indeed. I think at a basic level it is identical to my system: modbus connection to the heat pump, then read and write data over that connection, possibly even using the same coding language (python). They even have the same tricky to collect data, energy in and indoor air temperature, with similar fixes (use an additional sensor). Interestingly, they don't list Midea as a compatible system, though I am sure it must be.

There are at least three significant differences however:

(1) it is proprietary, ie a black box system (you have no idea what goes on in the black box)

(2) it uses wifi rather than a wire to transmit the data

(3) your data, reading between the lines ends up on their servers

Given (3), it appears that your installer, and very likely Planet Devices, will have access over the system to all your data. This obviously raises questions about privacy (will they sell your data to third parties or even the government?), and who's data is it anyway. Since you can write as well as read over modbus, it also means your installer, and very possibly Planet Devices, can control your heat pump remotely. Potentially useful if these things don't worry you, but in the wrong hands? Pesky customer? Turn up their heating to max at 2am and let them sweat a bit. Of course, no one would do that in practice, would they? But they might do something else. The problem is not where do these things start, but where do they end.

The lack of detail on their website is a bit worrying, but I suppose it is early days. There is also no information that I can see on prices. The business model appears to be Planet Devices sell to installers, and installers sell it to end users. 

I agree with these points - if they exposed the resulting data over MQTT or something (the way that Hildebrand do with their Glow aftermarket smart meters) then this would mitigate point 3, as then the data never needs to leave your home network. It would also make me trust (1) a bit more.

The first thing I would do is deny internet access to this device on my router. There is no need for the data to end up on their servers at all.

Still though this is an order of magnitude better than the current situation, where there is almost no data available to you, and any data you have access to is, well, via your manufacturer's cloud server... I hope they do well, but I also hope that they realise (1) that the sort of weird nerds who are interested in this would also like the ability to keep it all "in house" and tinker with the outputs locally, and (2) that if anyone is thinking of buying a heat pump (or already has one and wants to know if it's working well), they will talk to their weird nerd friend, who may well have bought this device and may well recommend it, should it pass muster. Appealing to the weird nerd crowd at the start then pivoting to a more mainstream offering is a really effective strategy that a lot of tech startups have followed successfully.

@mars interesting you picked up on this too. I read up on it a few weeks back. so far as I can tell, its method of connecting to the HP is fundamentally the same as homely so I didn't see it as widely different, just a competitor.

It needs the exact same type modbus connection to the heat pump's internal data bus as homely. Some HP's have this natively, some need an extra module (samsung).

what'll be interesting is if it gives more of a pared-back "monitor" approach rather than the whole super-efficiency-cost-optimised-control of homely.

even better if it exposes it nicely to the home owner. but from what I read on linkedin, they are focusing on the installer market though :-(. be nice if they come on here and discuss.

agree with @scrchngwsl a web front end or api for local data visibility would suit many of us.

there will always be the argument made by some that a Class1 heat meter approach is more accurate than relying on the numbers containing within the heat pump (which is all this will ever get you), but if at least you can reliably and methodically get to those heat pump's numbers, and use them intelligently, then that is a bloomin good start.