Welcome to the forums. You’re not alone in your concerns. What you’ve described is exactly the kind of story we’ve heard far too often, especially under schemes like ECO4, which are well-intentioned but, in practice, have resulted in a lot of rushed, poor-quality installations. And unfortunately, some homeowners have been left worse off than they were before. There's a whole thread here: https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/renewable-heating-air-source-heap-pumps-ashps/totally-bewildered/

From what you’ve said, it sounds like your current heating setup (wood burner and freestanding electric heaters) is working for your needs, your bills are low and you’re comfortable. That’s really important. In situations like yours, the real question is: what are you gaining by switching to a system like this?

Let’s look at the ECO4 recommendation:

ASHP can work well, if it’s designed and installed properly, but that’s a big if. ECO4 installs are often one-size-fits-all, and don’t take account of what you personally want or need. They’re also often over-engineered with lots of extra kit (new hot water cylinders, oversized pipework, complex controls) that can leave people like yourself with systems that are difficult to use or maintain.

New storage heaters. That suggests some internal conflict in the design. If you’re being offered an ASHP and new electric storage heaters, that’s a red flag!!!

Solar panels: Can be a great long-term addition if installed properly. But again, under ECO4, the quality of install varies wildly. 

Here’s the hard truth: these companies are often more focused on ticking boxes for funding than delivering something that works well and suits you. The work might technically be “free” to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s without cost... disruption to your home, long-term complexity and possibly higher bills or poor comfort if it’s not done right.

To be frank, based on what you’ve written, I’d be cautious. If you’re warm, comfortable and managing your bills, there’s no shame in saying no thanks to something that might not improve your situation, and I say this purely because ECO4 have just been so horrendous. I'm yet to see a good one.

You’ve already done the most important thing: asked questions before signing anything. That’s more than many get the chance to do.

Let us know what you decide.

If you decide to move ahead with the heat pump, you can still keep the wood burner as backup if that gives you more peace of mind. 

Hi @notanexpert 

Welcome to the forum.

I can understand your anxiety about moving away from what you know and the possibility of a bodged install.

Firstly let's deal with the survey recommendations. Insulation yes, PV solar panels yes, solar water heating no and storage heaters no.

The ASHP I would also say yes, but you want s good install. THE eCO 4 grant gives you so much, in your shoes I wouldn't turn it down.

You wouldn't want solar water heating as PV panels are much more versatile and maintenance free. There is no need for storage heaters if you plumb for a ASHP.

I have seen some excellent ECO4 ASHP installations. Try and do your best to vet the possible installers. 

If you are worried about understanding how to control the system there are some excellent systems out there that will do it all for you. Homely and Havenwise are two.

Agree with both @bontwoody and @editor : You need to vet the installer. If you can vet your installer, and only get the equipment you need, it's a good option.

And you'll have your wood burner as backup. 

Hi @notanexpert 

I think as others have said there are lots of good elements in ECO4 and it would be a pity to turn these down.  The ASHP does depend on a good install, done well it is likely to improve comfort and, given your current heating is at least in part (resistance) electric, significantly reduce cost.  Done badly you will have trouble.  Fortunately its usually possible to tell from the proposal and some interrogation which of these is likely to happen.

Like others I would say

ASHP system - yes but vet the installer/proposal.  Note you will need radiators/pipework to the radiators, but presumably that will be done at the same time as the floor insulation and hopefully mostly under the (suspended?) floor?

Floor Insulation - yes (but be aware its quite disruptive unless they have a magic way to do it - so worth finding out)

New Storage Heaters - no, thats the point of the ASHP (but see comment below)

Solar water heating  - no, max out on solar panels (solar PV) instead)

Solar Panels - yes, as many as you can get and its relatively difficult to make a mess of these

If you are prepared to post any proposals for the ASHP (and/or other elements) here then I am sure you will receive excellent guidance.  I think the key is to tie everything down in the proposal 

If for any reason you dont go for the ASHP then storage heaters plus a night time cheap rate electricity tariff is a reasonable option.  Still disruption because you will need cabling to each point, but less than an ashp (albeit for less benefit).

How much is your current electricity bill roughly?

I am presuming you dont have to commit until you have proposals, in which case is there anything to lose by seeing what people have to offer, other than some time.  

Posted by: @hcas

↑

Agree with both @bontwoody and @editor : You need to vet the installer. If you can vet your installer, and only get the equipment you need, it's a good option.

And you'll have your wood burner as backup. 

I’m not an expert on ECO4, but from what I understand, you don’t get to choose the installer in the traditional sense… the managing agent or company running the scheme usually assigns one. You can reject them if you’re not comfortable, but I don’t believe you have the ability to pick and request a specific installer. Happy to be corrected if someone knows otherwise.

@jaynieq @dwynwen @powysperson do you have any advice for @notanexpert?

@editor that's true Mars but I believe the same organisation will often work with the same installer in an area.

Posted by: @bontwoody

↑

@editor that's true Mars but I believe the same organisation will often work with the same installer in an area.

If thats the case then I might be selective over what I have done, once I have the quotes, assuming you can cherry pick.  Hopefully its a good one in which case everything listed above, otherwise only the bits that you are happy with.  Feel free to post quotes/descriptions/scopes of wort etc.

In brief: For the love of God, don't do it!

Full disclosure I found myself in a similar situation to you late last year. I believed the hype: reduced bills, environmental benefits, well regulated win win right?

Wrong! After a botched install, 6 months on and having invested over 200+ hrs in research alone I'm now in the early stages of escalating things and I would beg to differ.

Ultimately its risk vs/ reward. From my own bitter experience, please be aware, the risks are huge. 200% energy costs damaged roof, insulation that threatens the fabric of my home, (I could go on). 

That said given a good install, the fact remains 25%+ savings seem very achievable and the environmental benefits additionally seem well founded (I'm sure RHH could confirm). Also coming to RHH prior to signing you have made a huge step in mitigating the risks involved.

In hindsight, similar to advice above, I wish I'd researched my installer better

1. Are they local? A question I wished I'd asked myself: Why would it be economical for someone to travel 200 miles to carry out my install?

2. Will the install be subcontracted out, if so to whom? You want names and dates of when and what they will be doing. Also don't leave them to it - take pictures throughout or even better fit CCTV and get them to sign a disclaimer!

3. Online reviews are a waste of time, similar to contracting any tradesman a personal recommendation from someone you know/trust/and is knowledgeable who has had similar work done is ideal.

4. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about accreditation as, in my experience, the support offered from the current gold standard is very questionable to say the least. Under ECO4, I understand, ultimately everything must be Trustmark approved. They will confirm/refer to the relevant scheme provider/certification body at your request/if things go wrong and ultimately refer to the Dispute Resolution Ombudsman who in my case have been a god send, so far.

However at you stage, I would highly recommend starting verification of competence/efficacy of intended measures further up the food chain.

Ultimately ECO4, is a carbon offset scheme whereby Energy providers are buying carbon by funding homeowner improvements, which our traded on a platform (think like carbon EBAY).

1. Having contacted the glossy brochures contact the energy providers directly. In an ideal world I would get your provider round as, (you'd hope) they'd be significantly more invested in resolving any issues that might arise. But here's the rub, they are effectively investing in reducing your payments to them and enabling a bit more flexibility (in reducing demand at peak hours). Without going into the phasing targets or house bandings imposed by current legislation my personal belief is that unless your timing is perfectly timed any install that doesn't include a battery is questionable.   

Additionally the (carbon stat) is informed by PRS stats that we know of as EPC, (why actual carbon isn't recorded considering modern metering technology is perhaps a discussion best raised elsewhere) ie. Its very murky waters! Carbon is quantified by the improvement from one EPC banding to another. Given your install is a tradable commodity in competition with others in the same boat, understanding your EPC rating is key to getting the most out of your install and appreciating the limitations of this relatively arbitrary (EPC) output can help improve your chance of getting a good install.   

I really hope some of the above might help make an informed decision. I really would be very very cautious.

Apologies at my failed efforts at brevity. 

Posted by: @bart

↑

In brief: For the love of God, don't do it!

Full disclosure I found myself in a similar situation to you late last year. I believed the hype: reduced bills, environmental benefits, well regulated win win right?

Wrong! After a botched install, 6 months on and having invested over 200+ hrs in research alone I'm now in the early stages of escalating things and I would beg to differ.

For the sake of balance, I will share that our ECO4 experience with having an ASHP, solar panels and internal wall insulation fitted were all very positive and have resulted in a large reduction to our running costs (ASHP cost us ~£430 in first year versus £900-1200/year previously in oil), plus solar has reduced our electricity bill by around £560 for the year (generated 3750kWh at 15p SEG), so we have saved upwards of £1000 in first year.

I absolutely accept that it's luck of the draw, and we were lucky in having a great set of installers who did a great job. It's not perfect, but I can't complain overall. At the same time, our neighbours also had an ASHP installed under ECO4 and their experience was not as good as ours.

I must admit that I took a view that even if it all went horribly wrong, I could probably pay an experienced installer to come fix the installation / rectify all the issues for maybe £1000-2000, and still have benefitted from work that would have cost me more than 10 times more if I had paid for it. I appreciate not everyone eligible for ECO4 will have funds they can fall back on for remedial works, and of course in an ideal world it shouldn't be necessary.

Knowledge is everything. Arm yourself with as much information first, know exactly what you want out of the scheme and don't be afraid to get "quotes" from multiple companies (I think we went through six before we found one that was prepared to proceed and we liked the package they were selling). Most of the companies offering ECO4 work nationally and subcontract out all the work, just managing the project and completing the paperwork/forms for the ECO4 grant.