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(@allyfish)
Noble Member Contributor
3192 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 382
Topic starter  

Nope, no-one on here, none of us would do that would we?....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64261457

 


   
william1066, Morgan, ronin92 and 1 people reacted
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 mjr
(@mjr)
Prominent Member Member
1941 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 304
 

"He's got heat meters fixed to the pipework. Room temperature monitors"

Both required by government grants, aren't they? That's the main reason I got as much data as I have. It just came in very handy to find out what broke in November 2021 and I've not disabled the data logging since because why would I?


   
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(@keefsloan)
New Member Member
95 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2
 

Posted by: @allyfish

Nope, no-one on here, none of us would do that would we?....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64261457

 

I feel like I've finally been given official permission to now tell my friends about my tracking spreadsheets, constant tweaking of the WC curve, MELcloud, multiple room thermometers and the Octopus Compare app.

 

I still don't think they'll look at me with anything other than disdain though... 

 

😀

 


   
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(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13971 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4198
 

They may if you offer to compare bills. 😎 

 


   
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cathodeRay
(@cathoderay)
Famed Member Moderator
6918 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1391
 

I gave this new condition a diagnosis a while back, it's called HPDHD, Heat Pump Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. You all know the symptoms because you have them. The only known treatment is to take a cable cutter to all the sensor wires, and light a bonfire in the living room fireplace.  

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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(@allyfish)
Noble Member Contributor
3192 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 382
Topic starter  

"He's got heat meters fixed to the pipework. Room temperature monitors"

@mjr they got thrown under the BUS. The current BUS scheme requires no energy monitoring.

This post was modified 1 year ago by AllyFish

   
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Majordennisbloodnok
(@majordennisbloodnok)
Noble Member Contributor
4369 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 380
 

Posted by: @keefsloan

I feel like I've finally been given official permission to now tell my friends about my tracking spreadsheets, constant tweaking of the WC curve, MELcloud, multiple room thermometers and the Octopus Compare app.

Sorry to be something of a curmudgeon but I've just looked at the Octopus Compare app and it worries me. In order to use it, you are asked for your Octopus API key and your account number, both of which are privileged information; Octopus even go so far as to state multiple times on various parts of their web site that you should never share your API key.

If someone offered a great financial app and asked you to "just" provide your bank account details and online banking username/password in order for the app to do its stuff, I like to hope your answer to them would be a "no" with an "off" in it. Nonetheless, that's exactly what the Octopus Compare app is asking for in relation to your Octopus account. I'm happy to admit the damage someone could do right now with that API access is markedly less than if they had access to your bank account but that may not always be so. The API already provides the functionality to set up new accounts, and Octopus won't let you know in advance if and when they add the functionality to query account details. Do you trust the developers of Octopus Compare with (potentially) visibility of your personal account details? Even now, are you happy they could query your meter's consumption history and build up a picture of when you're likely at home or away?

Realistically, the chances you're running a significant risk by using Octopus Compare are probably low. However, that is only a "probably" and even if it's correct then there's no guarantee it will stay a low risk. I would urge you to stop using the app, go to your Octopus account page and regenerate your API key.

 

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and inverter
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs

"Semper in excretia; suus solum profundum variat"


   
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cathodeRay
(@cathoderay)
Famed Member Moderator
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1391
 

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

Even now, are you happy they could query your meter's consumption history and build up a picture of when you're likely at home or away?

I don't think you are being in the least bit curmudgeonly. These are very real concerns. This is why so far I have told by electricity supplier the only place I will even contemplate it installing its smart meter is somewhere where the sun don't shine, and here I am not talking about the cupboard under the stairs. I think there is a real risk of sleep-walking into a new order where we are all watched over by machines of loving grace. 

Only they are not machines of loving grace, they are machines commercial avarice. Why have we forgotten the old proverb, he who would sup with the devil should have a long spoon?

   

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


   
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Majordennisbloodnok
(@majordennisbloodnok)
Noble Member Contributor
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Posts: 380
 

Posted by: @cathoderay
I don't think you are being in the least bit curmudgeonly. These are very real concerns. This is why so far I have told by electricity supplier the only place I will even contemplate it installing its smart meter is somewhere where the sun don't shine, and here I am not talking about the cupboard under the stairs. I think there is a real risk of sleep-walking into a new order where we are all watched over by machines of loving grace. 

Only they are not machines of loving grace, they are machines commercial avarice. Why have we forgotten the old proverb, he who would sup with the devil should have a long spoon?

I certainly share your caution about privacy, but I have to admit I disagree with you on the smart meters; not on principle, but on practice.

It's a few years ago now that I was peripherally involved in the development of smart meters. I worked at that time for a company that was developing some of the early smart meters and so I was privy to the general approach to the implementation of the technology. I was, as a result, therefore quite comfortable with the caution and consideration being shown to device security, communication security, privacy issues and a number of other things besides. All of that means I have no more concerns these days about smart meters than about their analogue predecessors.

What I do have an concern about, however, is Internet security. How important is it that my smart meter can safely and securely transfer my data to Octopus if I then metaphorically give a stranger the keys to rummage around it just because they asked? The Bank of England's vaults are protected by some serious state of the art security but that's meaningless unless they do actually close and lock the vault door. Technology isn't good or bad; it's the strength of the weakest part of the chain that's the problem and that all too often is the user.

 

105 m2 bungalow in South East England
Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5 kW air source heat pump
18 x 360W solar panels
1 x 6 kW GroWatt battery and inverter
Raised beds for home-grown veg and chickens for eggs

"Semper in excretia; suus solum profundum variat"


   
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 mjr
(@mjr)
Prominent Member Member
1941 kWhs
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 304
 

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok
The API already provides the functionality to set up new account

Only for partner organisations, who Octopus should be tracking more closely and have tighter contracts with.

At the moment, risk is low, but it may not always be so (it seems likely DD adjustments and credit balance refund requests could be added in future), so sharing API keys is a bad idea.


   
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(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Moderator
13971 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4198
 

Posted by: @mjr

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok
The API already provides the functionality to set up new account

Only for partner organisations, who Octopus should be tracking more closely and have tighter contracts with.

At the moment, risk is low, but it may not always be so (it seems likely DD adjustments and credit balance refund requests could be added in future), so sharing API keys is a bad idea.

To the uninitiated, please explain API keys.

 


   
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(@prunus)
Estimable Member Member
166 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 56
 

API keys are like passwords, but used by computers. They allow access to private resources and data like passwords do, although API keys are often shorter-lived and can be restricted to only certain resources.  Like passwords-for-humans, sharing them around is usually a bad idea.


   
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