@cswd I dare say it will take a long time to see these sort of changes to filter through to all new installations, but it is promising that glycol, LLH’s, Buffer tanks and multiple pumps plus so many devices that cause the heat pump to have to work harder such as the intensive use of TRV’s and on / off thermostats are all being regarded as undesirable at the very least. The life of heat pumps and increased SCOPs is something to look forward to in the future! Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @cswd

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For your Heat Pump Warranty to be valid, it's highly likely they require either glycol OR an anti-freeze valve to be fitted. You might be ok to do this, but might invalidate any future warranty claim. Removal of the glycol will improve the water specific heat capacity (i.e. allow the same volume of water to carry more heat).

It's a self installation heat pump I bought from eBay, so no real warranty.

@starkers I now have access to the ‘Connect’ app for installers and have played with it just enough to establish that it communicates with my system. As the pump is *hibernating until cool weather arrives, all the readings are zero - but… come November…

*The DHW is catered for by a Sunamp Thermino using Solar and or Grid electricity.

Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@starkers I now have access to the ‘Connect’ app for installers and have played with it just enough to establish that it communicates with my system. As the pump is *hibernating until cool weather arrives, all the readings are zero - but… come November…

 

*The DHW is catered for by a Sunamp Thermino using Solar and or Grid electricity.

Regards, Toodles.

Very nice! It'll be interesting to see what you get out of it over the winter.

For the moment, do you see it reporting the battery status of your temperature node? I'm interested in working out why mine eats batteries- it is probably the cheap batts I'm using, but I've had to replace them once every 4-5 months. My node is rather far from the homely control unit so if connect provides trends for the battery I'd be interested in getting access to see if the rate of battery consumption changes as a function of distance to the unit if it's struggling to send data.

@starkers Yes, the data I can see at present is rather bland with a slumbering heat pump but yes, the node is running 24/7 and even with the previous Dashboard data that I had access to gave me a line on the charts showing me the status of the node. On one occasion, I had a note from Homely as they had noticed my node had stopped ‘phoning home’ for a few minutes a couple of times; they sent me a new cell to put in the node in case this had been the cause. All has been fine since so that cell is still running well (please see attached extract from a ‘Connect’ app screen grab) the new ‘Connect’ app. probably will provide more info come the colder weather.

My node is downstairs in the front room, my Homely hub is upstairs in a back room about 8 - 9 metres away as the fly crows.

I was a little amused when the diddy little button cell arrived; it was packed in a box approx. 20 cm x 20 cm x 15 cm! Lots of packaging and danger labels. When I reported its’ arrival to the Homely rep, he wrote back ‘Don’t start me on safety regs’!

Regards, Toodles.

I've been following this thread for a while and it feels like it might be a good point to bring things back to the originally posted question.

It seems to me that it simplifies things if we think of Homely not as an alternative to the various home automation systems available but just as another of them; one with only one way to integrate a heat pump into it (modbus), very few other possible integrations (some form of weather forecasting and a range of agile tariff info are about it as far as I can see) and no flexibility for customising per se (tinkering with figures, yes; tinkering with how it does it's stuff, no). This is an even more sensible comparison to make given their web site is talking about the Homely "vision" of incorporating solar PV as well some time in 2023; seems the plan hasn't gone to plan but that doesn't make it a bad plan even so. It's also worth reiterating the experiences of forum members here since the general feeling is that within its very limited remit Homely does what it does actually very well.

As a result, comparing different approaches suggests to me the following:

• Homely adds significant value to even a well configured standard ASHP installation. Whilst a manufacturer's implementation of a weather compensation curve may well be very effective Homely can still tweak that operation by using the extra information gleaned from electricity tariff data and weather forecasts.
• Homely cannot take into account any other wider context and the fact solar PV and electric vehicle charging may dramatically influence the most effective way of using the ASHP is a big gap. Nonetheless, it's an even bigger gap with a standard ASHP installation.
• Homely is not doing anything that couldn't be programmed into one of the open-source home automation systems currently available. However, the amount of effort needed to do that is significant and is probably beyond the capabilities and/or inclination of most home owners.
• The fact Homely are falling behind their development timeline suggests they may be struggling to keep up with the way the market is developing.

So putting those together, it feels to me reasonable to conclude that Homely is more user-friendly than other home automation systems largely because someone else installs it for you. It doesn't seem it will get the best out of a heat pump since it is hamstrung by its inability to take into account some pertinent outside factors like home solar PV or other perhaps more important energy consumers (EVs for example) that might be a higher priority to optimise. Nonetheless, users' evidence does suggest it will get the heat pump running very efficiently if it, the weather and the energy tariff are the only things that need to be considered. If you want to maximise efficiency, a home automation system and a lot of configuration will do better (and I include @cathoderay's approach of programming everything from the ground up in this since the control gained is immense). If you suspect you'll get more benefit from integrating multiple things together than optimising the heat pump then a home automation system and just a little configuration is the only real option. If you want a lot of improvement for very little upfront effort then Homely looks like it'll fill that niche.

That's just my take on what this thread has gleaned; does anyone else agree, have anything to add or feel I'm talking absolute drivel?

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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outside factors like home solar PV

Does that really need to taken into account? The output in winter heating season is so pathetic, most would just be soaked up in minor base loads. The best way to utilise any excess PV is just to have your heat pump ticking away.

Preempting weather, especially if running mostly on TOU, makes sense.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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If you want to maximise efficiency, a home automation system

Is that really true, lowest running cost on TOU maybe, max efficiency come from the lowest flow temp, which really means running 24/7.

@majordennisbloodnok I think your analysis is fair. 

Realistically very few people and almost no installer is going to set up a home automation system at the level needed to get the best out of a heat pump so a product like homely is useful.  Obviously there are people who like programming things, but even they might be tempted to view homely as a component of a bigger system that balances car charging, solar PV, batteries, real time electric cost, heat pump and dhw.

@majordennisbloodnok Yes, I agree as this matches my experience and as a user who does not write computer programmes (!) or dabble with arduinoes  (if that is the correct spelling!) I have been content to let ‘someone else’ carry out the work for me. I have had various conversations with Homely technical staff and have explained that with battery storage, my need for a controller that anticipates TOU tariffs is a vey low priority. Integration of a battery would be far more important to me. I purchased the Homely controller to do what I would spend hours doing every day I suppose and I have confidence in the system working for me with very little intervention from me; I am always eager to hear of any plans to integrate more of my kit so look forward to hearing of any and all future plans involving my heating, solar PV and / or battery integration. Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @johnmo

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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outside factors like home solar PV

Does that really need to taken into account? The output in winter heating season is so pathetic, most would just be soaked up in minor base loads. The best way to utilise any excess PV is just to have your heat pump ticking away.

Preempting weather, especially if running mostly on TOU, makes sense.

 

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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If you want to maximise efficiency, a home automation system

Is that really true, lowest running cost on TOU maybe, max efficiency come from the lowest flow temp, which really means running 24/7.

It all depends, @johnmo. Solar PV is often installed with a battery and that is a very useful timeshifter, so may indeed be relevant to take into account.

As for maximising efficiency is concerned, defining one’s goals is key here. Efficiency in terms of power consumption is not always the same as cost efficiency (linking back again to the point above about time shifting) and technical efficiency at the expense of comfort is yet another thing.

The points you raised are valid. I think, though, that there are many right answers rather than a one-size-fits-all.

I've just joined the forums but have been a lurker for quite some time.

I've run a Midea ASHP with Homely for two years nearly and I've been totally happy with it. Started with V1 unit and badly performing round node, also limited access to data/apps. Found that frustrating but very pleasantly surprised by Homely staff when raising issues and questions - they have a terrific team. I've since progressed to Homely V2 (square hub & square node) with better range and reliability. Was given access to Installer app and more recently the connect web app too. As a project I worked up an ESP microcontroller and TTL serial system to link into the modbus feed that runs between the Midea controller and the Homely. That data goes through ESPHome into my Home Assistant installed on RasPi. I now have more data than I can poke a stick at, which I love.

All that data and the on-going contact with great people at Homely has given me some additional insight into the algorithms and way things are operating in my home. It's more obvious to me now why Homely is doing what it's doing and when. I'm looking forward to some of the steps they are taking towards solar, battery, EV and hopefully whole home management.

Happy to share any of my experiences, my setup details and general thoughts with forum users, if it can help anyone.

@el_presidente, welcome to the forums, and thank you for stepping out of the shadows. I’m looking forward to you sharing your knowledge and experiences with Homely and other ASHP-related topics