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DIY Heat Pumps.

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(@derek-m)
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For those of you who may be considering a DIY Heat Pump install, you may wish to look at the following.

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/ct/heating/heat-pumps

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/ct/heating-and-air-conditioning/air-conditioners/wall-split


   
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jamespipe
(@jamespipe)
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There is no how to DIY instructions on this page.


   
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(@derek-m)
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Posted by: @jamespipe

There is no how to DIY instructions on this page.

I suppose that you could try the old fashioned method, download and read the installation manual.

There are a number of you tube video's.

I don't think that you can download an App that will carry out the installation. 😋 

 

 

 


   
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(@allyfish)
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With a DIY install you've got the option for heating and also cooling via fan coil units, which under the MCS approach isn't an option. However, these units use R410A refrigerant. Most of the main ASHP OEMs dropped R410A 4-5years ago for R32, and are now moving to R290.

This sales blurb is ironic: "Future-proof thanks to the most cutting-edge heat pump technology, reducing your energy usage". Anything using R410A is definitely not future proof!

R410A is illegal to use in new split systems from next year <2.5kg charge. Currently it's trading at £60/kg, and that will rise further as the gas becomes increasingly hard to source. Fingers crossed you don't need a refrigeration engineer out on these units, it could be a very expensive vac down and re-gas.


   
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(@iancalderbank)
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@allyfish actually the manual for this one says its R290. But I wouldn't want to DIY a split system. even if it says its pre-charged DIY-able.  any mucking about with refrigerant pipework has to be making life hard for yourself, and as you say, if you need to move / re-do / re-route / lengthen, anything that breaks it, you need an F-Gas engineer.

I've started trying to source some "high wall aircon unit style" water driven FCU's at the moment. my objective being to fit cooling in some rooms. Its proving surprisingly difficult. most uk suppliers that I can find  so far are still only dealing in split or are on insane price points for water ones. currently investigating direct china purchase options.

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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jamespipe
(@jamespipe)
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Posted by: @derek-m

Posted by: @jamespipe

There is no how to DIY instructions on this page.

I don't think that you can download an App that will carry out the installation. 😋

I can use an app to hire a plumber and teach me how to DIY the installation. 😀 

 


   
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(@iaack)
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@iancalderbank as R290 is based on propane (not containing fluorine) I would think that the f-gas regs wouldn't apply.


   
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(@iancalderbank)
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@iaack you might be right. but then propane is flammable. so I wouldn't be surprised if gas-safe applies (I haven't checked, just speculating). If you were going to DIY pipework around your house, would you rather have water in those pipes or a flammable gas? I know what I'd choose !

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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 robl
(@robl)
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Posted by: @iancalderbank

@iaack you might be right. but then propane is flammable. so I wouldn't be surprised if gas-safe applies (I haven't checked, just speculating). If you were going to DIY pipework around your house, would you rather have water in those pipes or a flammable gas? I know what I'd choose !

 

"Natural" gas is effectively an unlimited supply of highly flammable material - and so is super dangerous! 

Our R290 gshp is outside (tick!) and uses a Danfoss compressor.  They give minimum room dimensions to prevent the worst case scenario if R290 goes indoors (I'm not saying some other rules couldn't be applied):

 

"To prevent an explosive atmosphere in the case of a leak, units with charges above a certain limit can only be used in rooms exceeding a minimum floor size.

This room size is calculated based on the refrigerant charge, and the lower flammability limit (LFL) of the refrigerant. The manufacturer needs to display the restriction prominently, on a standard label complying with IEC 60417-6415.

The minimum room size (in m2) is equal to:

  • the refrigerant charge (in kg), divided by
  • one quarter of the LFL (in kg/m3) multiplied by 2.2 (the assumed height of the room)

So, for example, a system with 153g of R290 would require a minimum floor area of:

0.153kg / 2.2m x (0.25 x 0.038kg/m3) = 7.3m2

But a system with 494g of R290, the required area is much greater:

0.494kg / 2.2m x (0.25 x 0.038kg/m3) = 23.6m2"

 


   
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(@iaack)
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@iancalderbank Life is full of hazards.... it's the risks you need to worry about🤔


   
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(@allyfish)
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I think it's a monobloc unit, R410A. See here:

which is probably why they are getting flogged off cheap by the likes of Appliances Direct, to unsuspecting Joe Public. So who knows? R290 propane is refrigerant safety class A3. F-Gas regs apply. R290 is good for ASHP monoblocs, and unitary refrigeration circuits, but there are restrictions on charge quantities for splits. R410A could be a challenge to service and maintain down the line were it ever needed.


   
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(@iancalderbank)
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@allyfish there's two units on their pages. We picked different ones. there's a R410 mono (first link in first post) and an R290 split (second link in first post).

@iaack as you wish. the original suggestion was , this looks like a good system for a DIY'er. IMO, it isn't, because (in the case of the mono, allyfish has covered, its R410) and in the case of the split - er... its split ... . It brings a refrigerant line requiring either F-GAS or  a non-fluorinated but flammable gas inside the house. do you really want to recommend to a DIY'er to run refrigerant gas piping round their house?  I would not and that is the reason for my comment.

 

My octopus signup link https://share.octopus.energy/ebony-deer-230
210m2 house, Samsung 16kw Gen6 ASHP Self installed: Single circulation loop , PWM modulating pump.
My public ASHP stats: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=45
11.9kWp of PV
41kWh of Battery storage (3x Powerwall 2)
2x BEVs


   
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