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Confused with all the technical aspects putting people off air source heat pumps?

 
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by mjr 2 years ago
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 Sapper117
(@sapper117)
Estimable Member Member
339 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 43
Topic starter 28/10/2022 10:41 am  

A year ago we decided that we would move away from LPG and wood burner and try and up our epc to c as well as improve the heating in our part old part newish scottish cottage on the east coast where we have been for 39 years. Looking at oil, gas wood pellets etc we thought that the ASHP would  perhaps work. I did a lot of reading round the subject good and bad and called in several installers (and ignored several who advertised but either quoted by phone and EPC or admitted they had only fitted 1or 2) and at the same time arranged for a highly professional EPC advisor to come in.

the outcome was (as described in earlier postings) a twin Valliant 7KWh set up -7 going to hot water and slaved the the second for heating. We have been using this since late feb monitoring against last years usage of LPG and compressed logs. To assist with the costs we had the old 4kwh roof SV augmented by a ground based 8kwh system which has been in operation since late june single handed i have been flooding the grid with free download as the batteries are still on order but once in we should be free of grid usage for the 5 months of next summer.

why the heading?  I have used this site and many of the you tube interviews which are great, in addition any very clever and highly qualified people have given their advice and assistance freely to those who asked which is very generous but as the months have gone on there is more and more technical jargon advice suggestions does and donts. This is very helpful to those who can follow these however if the massive surge of people using heat pumps is to be achieved then most of these will be like me - someone interested in the technology but not technically minded and the massive flood of advice etc is likely to put many off - not only can it be costly but if it is so difficult to rig up and make it work why not simply put in that new all singing all dancing gas boiler which only has a couple of controls.

what would be very helpful is a Haynes Manual for working heat pumps.

I know that many are going to come back at me in my defence

a i have put in the installation (plus and air to air for my wifes log cabin office which is great) and fully support the system i simply find all the fiddling and tweaking very of putting and know others will and it will put them off

b before retiring I owned and ran a property management and letting company for over 15 years so have a fairly wide experience of matters relating to property

my analogy is perhaps 50 yrs ago i could fix my Mk1 Cortina with spanner's screwdrivers and manual. My EV if it goes down as a totally different matter

perhaps it is time to add in a section to the forum with simple non tech guides for those who are not electronic engineers


   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
15283 kWhs
Veteran Expert
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4429
28/10/2022 11:05 am  
Hi Sapper,

I fully agree, that the vast majority of consumers just want a system that works reliably and efficient, requires the minimum of user intervention, and does not cost an arm and a leg to both install and run.

I do believe the problem in the UK is there is a profound lack of adequately trained and competent installers and the need for better regulation of what they do.

Yesterday, on the forum, I suggested the need for trained inspectors, in the same way that we have building inspectors. They should have the ability to both check the original design and also that the installation meets the required standard. They should also try to ensure that any system is correctly configured and operates in the most efficient and effective manner.

Of course this all costs money, and in the end it will be the consumer who ends up paying, but maybe a few hundred pounds extra is worth peace of mind.


   
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 HughF
(@hughf)
Noble Member Member
3009 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 487
30/10/2022 7:37 am  

I think that all we need is for people to follow the manufacturers design and installation instructions to the letter. Look at vaillant - a full set of schematics for every sort of system design, easily available online.

Manufacturers controls should be mandated, none of this on/off thermostat rubbish.

And to make it even more idiot proof, an automated weather compensation adaption system such as Homely should be mandated. 

Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
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 Sapper117
(@sapper117)
Estimable Member Member
339 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 43
Topic starter 30/10/2022 8:47 am  

Spot on.


   
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 mjr
(@mjr)
Prominent Member Member
1943 kWhs
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 301
31/10/2022 6:59 pm  
Posted by: @hughf

I think that all we need is for people to follow the manufacturers design and installation instructions to the letter. Look at vaillant - a full set of schematics for every sort of system design, easily available online.

The trouble with that is that not all manufacturer instructions are prescriptive. Some aren't even especially correct, as far as I can tell.

Posted by: @hughf

Manufacturers controls should be mandated, none of this on/off thermostat rubbish.

And to make it even more idiot proof, an automated weather compensation adaption system such as Homely should be mandated. 

If you mandated manufacturer's controls, then you would have killed off Homely before it launched and also blocked lots of DIYers like me who are getting better performance from their automated weather compensation adaptation than the manufacturer's controller ever did.

And there is still a small place for on/off thermostatic controls, to catch the situations where the automated adaptation has been caught out by rare or novel conditions and overheated or underheated the home. There's no point giving the Daily Mail another "I went out for one day and my heat pump cost me £50 heating my house to 32°c" horror story. On/off thermostat controls just shouldn't be the primary control.


   
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