Posted by: @transparent

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@adamk  You will need to make an LCT application to your DNO (National Grid) in order to have a heat pump installed.

It's free, but worthwhile doing asap.

There are occasionally times when they request a delay whilst they upgrade cabling "in the road",
but there are also circumstances when the house has to be moved across to a 3-phase supply.

Once again, that's at no cost to you...
... but you'll need to consider what goes on what phase.

More importantly, you could then have a 3-phase ASHP.
They're more efficient. 🙂 

 

I have a partnership agreement with NGED which allows me access to their data and mapping tools.
So if there's any 'issue' I can delve into details of your local grid to understand what's happening.

because we moved the meter as part of our renovations i had to pay £980 for about 1hr work, we literally dug the trench and put the meter cupboard in for them. at the time i said about possible ASHP and EV in the future and was quoted £4.5k for 3ph upgrade. i also asked for a 100A fuse as all tails are now 25mm and was told no 80A max. i was given some story about the fuses not blowing for hours running 100A+, at the time i suspected it was BS and more about limiting grid load. after watching a QA vid one of the guys in it happened to mention the closure of the last coal fired power station and subsequent de rating of peoples fuses to 80A.

if i need 3ph or any other potentially cost inducing upgrades to my supply the gas boiler gets moved instead as this is getting too much like hard work.

I wish we'd spoken before all that debacle happened!

1: Here's the Standards document which describes the changes to the Service Fuse.

It's issued by Seth Treasure, who is NGED's senior engineer responsible for defining their standards.
I've communicated with him about the change to 80A, and I understand the technical issues.

It's not BS. 🤣 

I agree with the process, and how this affects diversification calculations for local substations.

2: It has been common practice for NGED to run a 3ph underground cable to all properties, even if they then fit a single-phase service fuse.

Do you know whether this was done?

3: The LCT Application identifies whether the household Total Demand will exceed 60A.

That's the trigger point for you needing 3ph Service Fuse and Smart Meter.

4: NGED's regions are divided into areas overseen by an engineering manager.

Within his/her team is a Network Planner.
It is they who ensure that the load on the local substation is 'balanced'.

If you were talking with the engineering team who were treating your site as a New Connection, then they may not have seen this from the Planner's viewpoint.

@transparent i needed to move the smart meter from the garage to the side of the property as we changed the garage into a room. there is 3ph in the road but we would have to trench my quite long tarmac drive as part of the work which i would have to get my builder to do and wasnt included in the £4.5k.

@transparent a more potentially sooner upgrade than an EV will be around 10kwh+ of battery which will also add to the load along with a 7.5kw induction hob so i can bin the gas meter.

all this is stuff i explained to the DNO (National Grid, was called Western Power) which is why he said i might need 3PH at the aforementioned cost. i said nope as was ridiculous. ive seen other area DNOs upgrading cable and fuse to 100A for free. i feel proper robbed to be honest. if this is our current path to net 0 its not going to happen in a million years as most people are like my builder extremely sceptical of heat pumps actually working and wont stick at a project if it starts to overrun on cost and hassle. this is why the 600k install goal for HP's is a joke especially as theyve now dropped the boiler ban, which was another reason i originally thought about upgrading now.

Not necessarily @adamk

It's likely/possible that the existing/ new underground cable already has 3ph conductors.
NGED have been doing that for several years.

When you say "move the meter",
are you implying that you'd also be moving the Service Fuse position?

Would that new location require a longer or shorter cable from the road?

Ah... so your original supply contract was with WPD, rather than NGED, and presumably before 2021.

I fully understand you feeling robbed.
A lot has changed in the last 5 years, and NGED are even more communicative.

You are in NGED Area 6112, and I have a name of your Team Manager.
Unfortunately I don't have the name of the Network Planner.

I recommend that you immediately do an LCT Application.

That will start a new Job-Number, and possibly provide you with contact details for the Area Planner.
I expect them to be based at Deacon Road Industrial Estate, Lincoln LN2 4JB

The golden rule here is to keep to email communications if at all possible.
Telephone conversations leave you with no evidence of who said what.

Posted by: @transparent

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Ah... so your original supply contract was with WPD, rather than NGED, and presumably before 2021.

I fully understand you feeling robbed.
A lot has changed in the last 5 years, and NGED are even more communicative.

You are in NGED Area 6112, and I have a name of your Team Manager.
Unfortunately I don't have the name of the Network Planner.

 

I recommend that you immediately do an LCT Application.

That will start a new Job-Number, and possibly provide you with contact details for the Area Planner.
I expect them to be based at Deacon Road Industrial Estate, Lincoln LN2 4JB

The golden rule here is to keep to email communications if at all possible.
Telephone conversations leave you with no evidence of who said what.

its defo single phase as i watched them joint it. the house was built in 1967 in a rural location.

OK. So 1967 for the original build,

but when was that cable laid by WPD, when they quoted £4.5k for 3ph?

Posted by: @transparent

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OK. So 1967 for the original build,

but when was that cable laid by WPD, when they quoted £4.5k for 3ph?

cable was laid probably some time in the late 90's early 00's when the pole electric was taken underground. quote was about 2 months ago and showed a plan with 3ph in the road, them trenching to that from my front boundary and then me doing the rest of the work before laying a new cable.

Ah. This timescale makes things clearer.

So that quote was based on you requesting 3-phase.

I wonder if the answer is different when it's NGED themselves who are wanting you to go 3ph because you submit LCT Applications for both a heat-pump and an EV charger !

There's no LCT application for storage batteries,
but I still recommend asking for the EV charger immediately.

That gives NGED a fairer view of what you're up to.

Just so other readers here understand what's happening:

@adamk has sent me a DM with his address.
That's allowed me to check the substation transformer to which his house is connected,
and the amount of "Demand Headroom" still available.

There's enough to do what he wants,
but NGED will need to assess how much imbalance his proposed additional load will add.

This is why it's better to apply for all the likely LCT you will need, as one big application.

Posted by: @transparent

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Just so other readers here understand what's happening:

@adamk has sent me a DM with his address.
That's allowed me to check the substation transformer to which his house is connected,
and the amount of "Demand Headroom" still available.

There's enough to do what he wants,
but NGED will need to assess how much imbalance his proposed additional load will add.

This is why it's better to apply for all the likely LCT you will need, as one big application.

i originally asked for a meter move quote which came to £2.4k before they did the site visit (where i explained the potential extra loads and was told he could quote for 3PH hence the £4.5K quote) and my builder found the cable, dug the trench, fitted the meter box in the wall, then it dropped to £980 for about 1hr work 2 guys, about 2M of cable, a cable joint, and new fuse/earth connector.

if they end up saying ive got dig the drive up and start again im not going to have an EV defo and will just see how the single phase goes. the HP im being quoted is between 6-8kw anyway which wont need 3ph.