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ASHP Install from hell part 5 - MCS Complaint: Solartherm UK (Silvercrest Ltd)


saf1973
(@saf1973)
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Ok, so its now been 3 weeks since the last plumber came around with the promise to complete the work, still no show.  I spoke to their office last week and was promised a date by the end of last week and that has come and gone.

So I have now started proceedings with the MCS against Solartherm UK (Silvercrest Ltd).  Deposit paid December 2020!

Later I will also be pursuing the company for the cost of the additional electricity used due to having to use additional space heaters and electric water heaters, loss of RHI against the electricity used by the ASHP to date and should they fail to register the install for RHI I shall also be seeking 7-years worth of RHI payments.

They have also falsely claimed the green homes grant as the payment was made to them on the proviso that they were to complete the install that weekend (many months ago now).  Note I told the GHG people that the install was incomplete before they issued payment based on the promise of completion.

 


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Derek M
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Posted by: @saf1973

Ok, so its now been 3 weeks since the last plumber came around with the promise to complete the work, still no show.  I spoke to their office last week and was promised a date by the end of last week and that has come and gone.

So I have now started proceedings with the MCS against Solartherm UK (Silvercrest Ltd).  Deposit paid December 2020!

Later I will also be pursuing the company for the cost of the additional electricity used due to having to use additional space heaters and electric water heaters, loss of RHI against the electricity used by the ASHP to date and should they fail to register the install for RHI I shall also be seeking 7-years worth of RHI payments.

They have also falsely claimed the green homes grant as the payment was made to them on the proviso that they were to complete the install that weekend (many months ago now).  Note I told the GHG people that the install was incomplete before they issued payment based on the promise of completion.

 

I am pleased to see that at least one disreputable installer is being taken to task. 😮 


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saf1973
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We are now only two days away from the closure of the RHI scheme for new applicants and my installer (Solartherm) is showing how little they know about what they are supposed to be doing as an MCS registered supplier.

Last week I get a call saying they were going to issue the MCS Certificate.   I asked about the new EPC and was met with silence followed by a "who told you that you needed one".........my reply, its on the RHI website.

So Yesterday (Monday) the EPC surveyor does the job and i get an email through with the MCS cert but no EPC.  However i looked online and the new EPC is there, so I can start the RHI application.

Then I get to the metering questions and I can go no further as Solartherm have failed to provide a metering form.   So I have gone online to get them that form and sent it tpo them to fill in.....what a shambles.

oh, one last thing.....all this and I still don't have DHW or new Rads fitted.

 

With the skills we have amassed on this forum we could set up a company that does all this properly!


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Saz
 Saz
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@saf1973 The procedure and admin tasks for MCS certification are so clearly set out on their website and relevant others' that there is just no justification for any installer not to do the required work properly and in a timely fashion.


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Mars
 Mars
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@saf1973, that is a complete and utter shambles. What I find concerning is just how disorganized and ill informed installers are. There are some that are truly excellent and that know everything there is to know, but they’re the minority. The rest fly by the seat of their pants.

Caernarfon 18kW ASHP from Global Energy System – 6.16kW solar PV array
Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm
Our heat pump installation: https://youtu.be/c3V0k_GeFOo


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Derek M
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@editor

I thought that MCS accreditation was supposed to provide some degree of assurance, and hence no doubt give the installer the ability to charge more for their services?


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Mars
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@derek-m, if I'm being honest, I'm quite disillusioned with the MCS. On paper and in theory they should be the safeguard mechanism on just about every level for quality installations and for rectifying bodged installations, but it's simply not translating like that in practical terms. I've raised scores of cases with them (from these forums, from My Home Farm comments and from private emails and comments) and they haven't been able to act in any of the cases to a meaningful degree. This is why I'm watching the comments and updates from Saz and Witchcraft and seeing how they fare. If they don't get a resolution and or reasonable support, I will be personally be writing to Ian Rippon again because it's simply not good enough.  

Caernarfon 18kW ASHP from Global Energy System – 6.16kW solar PV array
Follow our sustainability journey at My Home Farm
Our heat pump installation: https://youtu.be/c3V0k_GeFOo


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saf1973
(@saf1973)
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Update:  I pointed out to Solartherm that they had put on the MCS Certificate "Metering for payment required", which was why I couldn't submit for RHI.  They called back and said they made a mistake and have corrected it.  ......yet another mistake, the list is endless.

How do they get these MCS accreditations I wonder, is it one person in an organisation and then that Org gets it by default?  Because none of the people who I have dealt with in this company know what they are doing in terms of MCS works.

As for the MCS themselves, they passed the case to NICEIC to resolve and I don't have any complaints about them to date.  They have been in regular contact with me and have pursued the installer at Director level.   I will make sure i get every I dotted and T crossed on this install now I have gone through all this pain, it is the only way that installers will learn to do the properly.


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cathodeRay
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I have said it before and will say it again - it is very clear MCS is not fit for purpose. I was first alerted to this by the fact that over half (60%) of my installation design/quotes from MCS accredited installers could never meet MCS requirements. It seems many or most installers (bar the good ones) know they can run rings round a toothless MCS and the result is the many shambles we see described here and elsewhere.

 

Midea 14kW (for now...) ASHP heating both building and DHW


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saf1973
(@saf1973)
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Update June 2022 - Yes i'm still here!   The 2nd plumber finished the job in mid-may, he did a decent job so no complaints about his work.

Solartherm issued me with an Invoice with a £150 good will gesture discount, I had to check it wasn't April fools day .....18 months to do a 3-day job, with no hot water for the entire autumn and winter 2021 and part of the seasons either side, plus freezing rooms due to the misconfigured system.

Certsure (NICEIC) are coming to do a site inspection at the end of the month or mid July and requested that Solartherm attend and here is the current status:

 
1) The system was never commissioned as per the Daikin manual and no handover pack or training has been given.
 
2) Design is questionable
    2a) Why is there a 50ltr buffer in a system this size (min estimate >120ltrs) with an Inverter ASHP.    Daikin manual only requires 20 litres in the entire system.
    2b) No control to the buffer tank circulation pump, i.e a vampire device.
  
3) Is the warranty valid?
    3a) Not commissioned.  Installed and running in a mis-configured (flows, returns and filters reversed) state for 9 months.
    3b) Daikin manual states system warranty is not valid if a 3rd party DHW tank is installed.
 
 4) The original quote was not adhered to.
    4a) The reason why i chose Solartherm was because they were offering an R32 LG ASHP.   After several false starts to the install date Solarthem asked in July 2021 if they could change it to a Daikin, i did not realise it was R410 and I reluctantly agreed "in the interests of getting it installed before the GHG expiration".  If i had known it would take another 10 months I would have said no.
 
I wonder if Certsure will be looking at getting the job done properly to the letter or just the case closed down.
 
 

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Kev M
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3) Is the warranty valid?
    3a) Not commissioned.  Installed and running in a mis-configured (flows, returns and filters reversed) state for 9 months.
    3b) Daikin manual states system warranty is not valid if a 3rd party DHW tank is installed.
 
@saf1973 thanks for the update.  3a) may affect the warranty.  But I think Daikin would have a job to convince a judge that a competent 3rd party DHW tank would let them off their warranty. Stating it in the manual doesn't override consumer law.  

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